[Elephas]

Iron_Dreamer, if you built a great amp for me I would never sell it.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer /img/forum/go_quote.gif But if the custom amp is that great of a performer, why would selling it ever be an issue (unless one bought beyond their means)?

Exactly.

Even the big companies that made some legendary stuff never touched it again. obvious new isn't always better!

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif A modded T1 will always be a bad amp. It's a highly compromised design but I like its sound with the Lambda line and many of the older phones and the tubes cost next to nothing so it stays put. It was also free so that might be a factor as well. I even bought a T1W to keep it company. just because it matches the SR-Omega in color.. Krell, Levinson, Lamm and others are only highly priced and not really high end. for me the the dividing point is the willingness to use a cardboard box as a case so you can spend some more on the internal parts. All jokes aside there aren't really many companies willing to make their own caps, resistors, transformers, volume controls etc. because no stock part is good enough. That is ultra high end and there sits Kondo firmly but other companies are coming around with specially made caps such as ARC, C-J and CAT. It's a good start but not enough. Another worthy contender is Shindo and at a more down to earth price. He gets around the ultra expensive components issue by using old components that were very well made (Sprague caps, Allen Bradley resistors etc.) and he got them for cheap when they were "obsolete". He uses tubes that aren't as popular so they are still cheap and often sound better. IMO there are two types of synergy. One is where you use the best parts available and they each build on each others strengths and then there is the type where you use the components to make up for the deficiency's of the system as a whole. Slow cables to hide the ugly top end, bloomy tubes to produce more bass etc. The best custom build is you but there is a lot of knowledge involved and the dangers are very real. Shorting a fully charged 500uf/500v cap will teach you to respect it. When you go even higher in voltage it can arc into your hand i.e. jump through the air. No metal objects on or near you allowed... The use of plastic in transducers is a bad, bad thing. It's nearly unavoidable with ESL's but use a little as you can get away with. It really gets to me when I hear the housing mucking up the driver at a complex spot by not diffusing the vibrations...

We know not to touch the caps, unless the amp has been off for at least half an hour. Some designs have bleed caps(tube amps).

Tube amps in general work with higher voltage, more danger involved.

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you look at tube amp designs, yes, a good transformer makes it in general much better, regardless of design topology! A good cap with good top and bottom frequency responce makes an amp better, regardless of design topology! What design does is placing some neccessary components into a certain place. Some would use another design to avoid some of these components in that path. Better cabling makes a difference; regardless of design topology, you need wires in an amp.

I don't agree with you there. I'd rather have a circuit that doesn't need a capacitor in the signal path at all rather than just putting the best black gate in. And no, a good transformer does not automatically make it much better, it depends on the circuitry before and after the transformer. Good wires, sure, they will improve any design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline We know not to touch the caps, unless the amp has been off for at least half an hour. Some designs have bleed caps(tube amps). Tube amps in general work with higher voltage, more danger involved.

It's worse than that even, some caps can hold a dangerous charge for months. It's safer to assume that a cap doesn't have bleeder resisters until you know they are there. You definitely want to check that before reaching in with both hands and putting your fingers near them.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirumu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't agree with you there. I'd rather have a circuit that doesn't need a capacitor in the signal path at all rather than just putting the best black gate in. And no, a good transformer does not automatically make it much better, it depends on the circuitry before and after the transformer. Good wires, sure, they will improve any design. It's worse than that even, some caps can hold a dangerous charge for months. It's safer to assume that a cap doesn't have bleeder resisters until you know they are there. You definitely want to check that before reaching in with both hands and putting your fingers near them.

I don't agree with ya; tube amps defenately will gain alot if a good transformer is used, especially when coupled to the transformer.

Don't worry.

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif headroom means perception of space, you never get a big space big speakers can create. Also there is no real middle, it's always slightly offset to the left, or to the right. inherant of headphone design.

You mean imaging? It won't happen if you listen to stereo material through headphones, but listen to binaural material and it's all there. Headphones are a binaural playback medium.

Quote:

I don't agree with ya; tube amps defenately will gain alot if a good transformer is used, especially when coupled to the transformer.

The best coupling technique is direct coupling, it's also happens to be the hardest to design. Transformer coupling is the easiest to design, but you have to deal with the great reactivity of a transformer that increases exponentially as the turns ratio moves away from 1:1. Don't get me wrong, I love transformer coupled circuits as they're so inherantly simple and make it much easier to use no degenerative feedback, but they have their issues like any other part.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif You mean imaging? It won't happen if you listen to stereo material through headphones, but listen to binaural material and it's all there. Headphones are binaural playback mediums. The best coupling technique is direct coupling, it's also happens to be the hardest to design. Transformer coupling is the easiest to design, but you have to deal with the great reactivity of a transformer that increases exponentially as the turns ratio moves away from 1:1. Don't get me wrong, I love transformer coupled circuits as they're so inherantly simple and make it much easier to use no degenerative feedback, but they have their issues like any other part.

Sure, won't deny that in any way BUT since it's so simple, you will immdeiatly hear improvements IF you use a high quality transformer, like the audio note silver transformer or any other really good transformer.

Direct coupling:
complex power supply requirements and impedance- matching problems.

Mine uses the commenly used method with a coupling cap and resistors. And in this setup, higher end materials do make a huge difference! They have immediate impact on the sound.

I guess direct coupling and hardwire would be the best thing.

But the strange thing is that some really high end designs that use pcb's beat hardwired designs. maybe it still is down to the components used.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif You mean imaging? It won't happen if you listen to stereo material through headphones, but listen to binaural material and it's all there. Headphones are binaural playback mediums. The best coupling technique is direct coupling, it's also happens to be the hardest to design. Transformer coupling is the easiest to design, but you have to deal with the great reactivity of a transformer that increases exponentially as the turns ratio moves away from 1:1. Don't get me wrong, I love transformer coupled circuits as they're so inherantly simple and make it much easier to use no degenerative feedback, but they have their issues like any other part.

Sure, won't deny that in any way BUT since it's so simple, you will immdeiatly hear improvements IF you use a high quality transformer, like the audio note silver transformer or any other really good transformer.

Direct coupling:
complex power supply requirements and impedance- matching problems.

Mine uses the commenly used method with a coupling cap and resistors. And in this setup, higher end materials do make a huge difference! They have immediate impact on the sound.

I guess direct coupling and hardwire would be the best thing.

But the strange thing is that some really high end designs that use pcb's beat hardwired designs. maybe it still is down to the components used.

I guess i don't have much binaural material. All stereo recordings.

I know there are some testfiles floating around the web....

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't agree with ya; tube amps defenately will gain alot if a good transformer is used, especially when coupled to the transformer. Don't worry.

I'm not saying transformers are inherently bad, anything I build will have a couple and good ones at that. All I'm saying is that good parts alone don't make a good amp. Certainly better parts can usually make a good amp better but they can't compensate for inherent deficiencies in the circuit. As the old saying goes, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess i don't have much binaural material. All stereo recordings. I know there are some testfiles floating around the web....

You can HRTF process stereo tracks to make them binaural.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can HRTF process stereo tracks to make them binaural.

Can you give me a link to the software?

Does it do the same thing as the crossfeed switch on some amps?! Fake headroom/soundstaging.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirumu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not saying transformers are inherently bad, anything I build will have a couple and good ones at that. All I'm saying is that good parts alone don't make a good amp. Certainly better parts can usually make a good amp better but they can't compensate for inherent deficiencies in the circuit. As the old saying goes, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

True, but what is a bad design if it sounds good to your ears?!

Alot of people say audio note is bad designed and overpriced, yet alot of people like it because it sounds good. They do select their materials. I've heard some stuff and it really sounds nice.

So, i listen with my ears, not with my eyes. I don't select on design, only on performance of what i hear.

NOS tube dac's are measuring like crap and are hard to handle/ difficult load but they do sound very nice.

 

[Carl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you give me a link to the software?

I'm talking about virtualization algorithms. You've probably heard of Dolby Headphone, but there are better ones that are pretty expensive.

Quote:

Does it do the same thing as the crossfeed switch on some amps?! Fake headroom/soundstaging.

You could call it fake. It doesn't exist naturally. The presentation of headphones is going to be fake no matter what you do (well, short of lugging around one of those Neumann dummy heads) on part of being binaural in their mode of operation. Crossfeed is just a dumb (technically, I'm not dissing it) way of achieving the same goal, but really HRFTs are too complex to do properly in the analogue domain.

Quote:

NOS tube dac's are measuring like crap and are hard to handle/ difficult load but they do sound very nice.

Depends on the measurement. They have way way less ultrasonic crap and time domain anomilies resulting from the overkill filtering required to remove it.

The measurements that make delta-sigma converters look superior are just like the measurements that make FET amps with buckets of negative feedback look superior. Just marketing BS from the companies who make and use the technology.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm talking about virtualization algorithms. You've probably heard of Dolby Headphone, but there are better ones that are pretty expensive. You could call it fake. It doesn't exist naturally. The presentation of headphones is going to be fake no matter what you do (well, short of lugging around one of those Neumann dummy heads) on part of being binaural in their mode of operation. Crossfeed is just a dumb (technically, I'm not dissing it) way of achieving the same goal, but really HRFTs are too complex to do properly in the analogue domain. Depends on the measurement. They have way way less ultrasonic crap and time domain anomilies resulting from the overkill filtering required to remove it. The measurements that make delta-sigma converters look superior are just like the measurements that make FET amps with buckets of negative feedback look superior. Just marketing BS from the companies who make and use the technology.

Hence, i only trust my ears. if something sounds good, regardless of design, it is good to me!

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif True, but what is a bad design if it sounds good to your ears?! Alot of people say audio note is bad designed and overpriced, yet alot of people like it because it sounds good. They do select their materials. I've heard some stuff and it really sounds nice. So, i listen with my ears, not with my eyes. I don't select on design, only on performance of what i hear.

In saying that you are implying I hold the opposite view but I must point out that it was you who talked of replacing some parts in your amp with better ones. How did you know it would sound better without hearing it and listening with your ears?

Listening with your ears can take you in many directions, not just the few well trodden paths that the commercial designers favor.

Yes, there is always taste involved but this is not an statement that directly relates to any superiority commercial amps may have over hand built custom designs. Some people like Apple's iPod headphones but that doesn't mean they're as good as HE90s or some home made electrostatics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif NOS tube dac's are measuring like crap and are hard to handle/ difficult load but they do sound very nice.

If something sounds good but doesn't measure well then clearly they're measuring the wrong thing. Most likely because they want to sell you something. Some older amplifiers designs like those you describe sound really good but how many commercial vendors are building amplifiers using those old circuit topologies? I think you may be surprised to find it's not as common as you think even with tube amplifiers.