Amplifier Voltage Swing + High Impedance Headphones - SQ difference proven?

[kombatfreak]

Realize that there are many similar threads, did some searching without a direct answer.  Apologies for new thread, but will try to phrase in a new way.
 
My question is about voltage swing in amplifiers for use with high impedance headphones.  How much is performance really affected?  I realize there won't be one straight answer but I'm also interested if there been any quantitative double-blind tests to show the degree of improvement in sound quality.
 
Basically I've read two things:
1) More voltage swing will allow you to reach higher volumes without distortion/clipping
2) More swing results in an improvement of sound quality (greater clarity, soundstage, impact, deeper bass)
 
I guess my question is more about point #2. Is the improvement in sound quality real/perceived/significant?  I read around, and most of the time the answer is a unanimous yes if you were previously under-amping.  But there seems to be no testing data on the issue of sound quality interactions with voltage swing.  Apologies for paranoia but the majority of audio myths also fall into the 'sound quality' lot unfortunately.  Is this one of them?
 
I'm asking because I'm considering investing in a desktop amp with greater voltage swing.  My current portable amp powers my DT990 / 600 to comfortable listening levels at 12 - 2 o'clock and I'm satisfied with the volume output.  Would an amp with greater voltage swing just increase volume?  (is there a point if I'm already satisfied).
 
Thanks and sorry if redundant.  If there's already an appropriate existing thread that I couldn't find please point me in the right direction.

 

[Ypoknons]

Did you see this thread on Headfonia? It has some technical evidence, though not DBT. 
 
I think you also need to consider the role of coloration - some amps are just obviously colored, and whilst I haven't dbt'ed it, it's reproducible at certain points and I'm confident I would pass a DBT. 

 

[Leny]

 
Quote:

My question is about voltage swing in amplifiers for use with high impedance headphones.  How much is performance really affected?  I realize there won't be one straight answer but I'm also interested if there been any quantitative double-blind tests to show the degree of improvement in sound quality.
 
Basically I've read two things:
1) More voltage swing will allow you to reach higher volumes without distortion/clipping
2) More swing results in an improvement of sound quality (greater clarity, soundstage, impact, deeper bass)
 
 
I'm asking because I'm considering investing in a desktop amp with greater voltage swing.  My current portable amp powers my DT990 / 600 to comfortable listening levels at 12 - 2 o'clock and I'm satisfied with the volume output.  Would an amp with greater voltage swing just increase volume?  (is there a point if I'm already satisfied).
 
 

Regarding...
 
Your point 1) If the amp can deliver the required current then higher voltage swing = more volume. Distortion depends upon many aspects, not just voltage swing from the amp.
 
Your point 2) More swing (volume) does not directly / automatically improve sound quality. (Some amps with a larger swing may actually be better amps, but it is not automatically so).
 
If your current amp gives sufficiant volume at 12 - 2 o'clock, then you have sufficient volume.
Changing to a higher volume amp may not bring better quality.
But changing to a better quality amp may bring higher volume.
 

 

[kombatfreak]

Many thanks Ypoknons & Leny for the quick and helpful answers.
 
Quote:

Did you see this thread on Headfonia? It has some technical evidence, though not DBT. 
 
I think you also need to consider the role of coloration - some amps are just obviously colored, and whilst I haven't dbt'ed it, it's reproducible at certain points and I'm confident I would pass a DBT. 

I hadn't seen that thread yet - thanks, it's good information and helps address my question of whether or not the DT990 / 600 really needs "huge voltage swing to shine".  Also noted on coloration, sounds like I will just have to try different amps see if something sounds better.

 
Quote:

 


Regarding...
 
Your point 1) If the amp can deliver the required current then higher voltage swing = more volume. Distortion depends upon many aspects, not just voltage swing from the amp.
 
Your point 2) More swing (volume) does not directly / automatically improve sound quality. (Some amps with a larger swing may actually be better amps, but it is not automatically so).
 
If your current amp gives sufficiant volume at 12 - 2 o'clock, then you have sufficient volume.
Changing to a higher volume amp may not bring better quality.
But changing to a better quality amp may bring higher volume.
 

Great reply - thanks for addressing those points in a way that's easy to understand.  I was prompted to ask because I read so many posts about 600 ohm headphones needing higher swing amps to sound better (as mentioned above).
 
So if I'm understanding both answers correctly...if I want to improve the sound of my DT990 / 600 - rather than worry overly about voltage swing, I should think more about whether the amp is simply better, and whether the coloration is a good match?  If these 'phones sound better (impact, bass depth, clarity, stage) on a desktop amp than a portable amp, it will be because of any number of things, and not because voltage swing was the bottleneck?
 
Thanks.
 

 

[Ypoknons]

Quote:

I hadn't seen that thread yet - thanks, it's good information and helps address my question of whether or not the DT990 / 600 really needs "huge voltage swing to shine".  Also noted on coloration, sounds like I will just have to try different amps see if something sounds better.
 
Great reply - thanks for addressing those points in a way that's easy to understand.  I was prompted to ask because I read so many posts about 600 ohm headphones needing higher swing amps to sound better (as mentioned above).
 
So if I'm understanding both answers correctly...if I want to improve the sound of my DT990 / 600 - rather than worry overly about voltage swing, I should think more about whether the amp is simply better, and whether the coloration is a good match?  If these 'phones sound better (impact, bass depth, clarity, stage) on a desktop amp than a portable amp, it will be because of any number of things, and not because voltage swing was the bottleneck?
 

High impedance headphones are tilted towards voltage because of ohm's law, but don't let that fool you - the HE5 for example, is 25ohms but still very voltage hungry due to its low efficiency. I personally prefer amps that are as neutral as possible, and I prefer the coloration to come from my transducers. I was at Kingsound the other day, for example, and it was obvious that the Burson HA160 is a bit warmer than the Meier Concerto. The power supply also plays a role, as do other factors in the circuit design - caps in the signal path, for example. There's also some debate over the role of dampening factors. It's probably true that differences between amps are exaggerated, but in my (sighted) experience they're definitely there. I wish I could give you more technical advice but it'll take someone better at that than me 

.

 

[Leny]

Quote:

...if I want to improve the sound of my DT990 / 600 - rather than worry overly about voltage swing, I should think more about whether the amp is simply better, and whether the coloration is a good match?  If these 'phones sound better (impact, bass depth, clarity, stage) on a desktop amp than a portable amp, it will be because of any number of things, and not because voltage swing was the bottleneck?
 
 
 

Yes.
 
The two main questions to ask yourself when auditioning a new amp will be... Does it sound better? Is it loud enough with some volume control rotation to spare?
 
Simples