[CrawlingEye]

Well, here's my situation.

I have my Trackmasters now and my Rio Karma. The Trackmasters can be driven by my Karma at the moment, but I need to turn my volume up to 24 to get a 'decently loud' volume, which I consider about normal for a listening level.

On the other hand, I keep them plugged into my computer some of the time and I'm using an Audigy 2. I'm not willing to part with the Audigy 2 completely though, as I use it extensively for games.

So, I have about $70 right now and could likely make around $100-$150 fairly soon.

I'm thinking of saving up and picking up an M-Audio Audiophile and going dual-soundcard with using my A2 for games and the Audiophile for music and recording. My band's been wanting to get into the studio for a couple of our songs, but it's likely that the money we have to put toward studio-time wouldn't be very worth-while for the quality we would get locally and the amount of songs we have (which is about 3-4 completed).

With all of this said, I want something relatively neutral to compliment my Trackmasters. A built-in amp isn't neccessary. My current A2 can drive my Trackmasters quite well, but the sound is a bit slurred with them, not horribly-so but enough that I can tell there's room for a source upgrade.

So, what it boils down to it seems is either a new source or a portable headphone amp to accompany my Karma.

What'd you guys think?

I'm thinking maybe an external DAC in the next year or so doesn't look so bad, either. This leads me to think Audiophile (from the reviews I've read) but I'm not sure.

Thanks all. Sorry if I kind of rammbled.

 

[slunk007]

My newbie POV

Well, if you are planning on using an amp with your A2 (I have an A2 and I think I need an amp to drive my a900's better) I would actually say start with the source. I don't know much about M-Audio cards, but if it can drive your stuff louder AND clearer than A2, then I would do that, personally. If you are planning on getting an amp for your card, you'll want to do both then right? Amplifying a bad source just makes it sound worse if I understand correctly.

Of course, you can make a decision based on what takes priority: home rig, or portable... I spend most of my time listening at home so I would do source first. If you're on the go more than you're at home, maybe you'll pick amp first.

Either way, you can't lose!

Have fun thinking that one out!

 

[CrawlingEye]

Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear but the amp would be a portable amp to use with my Rio Karma (which is an hard drive based mp3 player).

I'm kind of trying to decide which would improve sound better Karma -> MINT -> Trackmasters
or
M-audio Audiophile -> Trackmasters

My Audigy 2 is easily loud enough to power my Trackmasters, but it lacks in the SQ. My Karma has good SQ but lacks some power.

 

[slunk007]

Well, I still go back to prioritizing. Which one first? Home or portable? Which one do you spend the most time on? Which one needs it the most?

Try answering those questions... I think soon I will be in the same boat as you are in, since I'm already thinking of upgrading my source or doing a dual-card dealy.

I have to prioritize too. Since I am taking up two hobbies at the same time, things get expensive. A drum kit? Or more gear?

Decisions, decisions...

 

[davvy]

I know it is slightly more than you said you wanted to spend, but why not get a Headroom Bithead or Total Bithead when they come out.
http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?...tID=0000010003
http://www.headphone.com/layout.php?...tID=0000010004

That way you get everything you want in one package - a new source that will sound far better than your A2 and a portable amp.

 

[CrawlingEye]

Quote:

Originally posted by slunk007 Well, I still go back to prioritizing. Which one first? Home or portable? Which one do you spend the most time on? Which one needs it the most? Try answering those questions... I think soon I will be in the same boat as you are in, since I'm already thinking of upgrading my source or doing a dual-card dealy. I have to prioritize too. Since I am taking up two hobbies at the same time, things get expensive. A drum kit? Or more gear? Decisions, decisions...

It's definitely a problem with prioritizing. Especially with a girlfriend on top of it, which going out the better half of the week can obviously cause some serious problems with money.

I was thinking new bass head or headphones and mp3 player. I already have a powerful enough head and I'm thinking of trading a good deal of equipment in for my new head, so I made that get put on hold.

With the dual-card thing though, do any of you have comments in regards to the USB audiophile vs the pci audiophile? It seems the pci audiophile only comes with rca jacks from the 'break-out' cable, and doesn't come with a 1/4" or 1/8" jack to plug my headphones into. On the other hand, I'm concerned about CPU usage with it. I won't be gaming on it but if it's terrible (as I've heard some usb 1.1 cards can have problems with) then there's going to likely be problems with recording.

It is a bit more than I wanted to spend (the usb audiophile) but it may be the better option, as long as the above checks out ok.


To the poster who recommended the the bithead, I'm not so certain how viable this would be. The bitheads are 16bit soundcards. While some have speculated as to how official the audigy 2 is to an 'official' 24bit card, it's certainly more than 16bit. The sound quality between the two is negligiable, if any, likely. I'd rather go for a larger jump and the Audigy 2 doesn't need an amp. I'm doing ok with my computer as a source, in terms of volume.

I think the more I think about it, the source will be my upgrade but I just want to double check my options. I'm going to start a new thread shortly about it. Thanks all for the help.

 

[davvy]

Mate, I really wouldn't worry about the Bitheads only being 16 bit. As I'm sure you know, CD audio is 16 bit, so it should be ideal. There is no benefit in using a 24 bit card with 16 bit material as far as I am aware.

When you play a CD or MP3 through the Audigy 2 it upsamples via a crappy algorithm from the CDs 44.1kHZ to 48 kHz. This results in a major loss in sound quality and is the main reason that cards like the Revo, which outputs at 44.1kHz with no resampling, sound better.

Anyway, my point is that a quality 16 bit 44.1Khz DAC like the Total Bithead will almost certainly **** all over the Audigy 2 for playback of CDs and MP3s. Regardless of whether the A2 is 24 bit 96 kHZ or whatever.

 

[JeffL]

Quote:

the Audigy 2 doesn't need an amp. I'm doing ok with my computer as a source, in terms of volume.

It's not about volume! The amp does have a lot to do with that, but the SOURCE is responsible for the overall quality, before any pre-amps that the A2 has. I do not believe the A2 has a true headphone preamp. Along that note, neither does the PCI based M-Audio Audiophile, whereas the USB version does. You CAN use a RCA-1/8th adapter and plug in headphones, but the gain between a true line out and a headphone output is different, and you will get distortion.

Back to the A2 amp though, you will definetly get a higher volume with a more powerful amp, but you will also get more clarity and refinement of detail because the amp will be able to power headphones more precisely.

Given your situation, I would wait and get the money to at least upgrade both the source and the amp. Even a MINT type amp with a decent source will sound a whole lot better than just the A2 without an amp. If you want to get an amp later and use the Audiophile for just music, and the A2 for gaming, go with the USB audiophile. Of course the best choice of all would be the PCI audiophile with a true headphone amp.

OTOH, I would definetly look at upgrading the source right away and waiting on the amp if you want to do recording. The money you will save on the recording will buy you a very decent headphone amp, trust me, I have experience there.

 

[CrawlingEye]

Quote:

Originally posted by davvy Mate, I really wouldn't worry about the Bitheads only being 16 bit. As I'm sure you know, CD audio is 16 bit, so it should be ideal. There is no benefit in using a 24 bit card with 16 bit material as far as I am aware.

I think you're missing the lot of what I'm saying though.
My Audigy 2 isn't being considered by me or anyone to be a prize winner in SQ or anything for that matter, except gaming.

With this said, I will likely eventually use SACD's or DVD's (we'll have to see which wins the 'next evolutionary step in audio' race) with my system. I highly doubt that either of these will continue to be 16bit.

Quote:

When you play a CD or MP3 through the Audigy 2 it upsamples via a crappy algorithm from the CDs 44.1kHZ to 48 kHz. This results in a major loss in sound quality and is the main reason that cards like the Revo, which outputs at 44.1kHz with no resampling, sound better.

Yes, it does. However this is irrelevant to my thread, as I previously stated. You can defend the bithead until your head turns blue, but as it stands, I don't think the bithead is as good of a source as my money could afford me at the moment, especially with the prospect of a seperate amp in mind for a future upgrade for it, along with an external DAC, which I couldn't use with the bithead even if I wanted.

Quote:

Anyway, my point is that a quality 16 bit 44.1Khz DAC like the Total Bithead will almost certainly **** all over the Audigy 2 for playback of CDs and MP3s. Regardless of whether the A2 is 24 bit 96 kHZ or whatever.

I think you need to reread my thread before posting in it. I don't appreciate having my thread used to bash the Audigy 2, where I asked which would show more benefit in SQ from an overall perspective in an amp for portable vs soundcard for at home stand-point.

If you have a problem with me not thinking badly about the Audigy 2 as a gaming card, then I'll just simply add you to my ignore list.

 

[CrawlingEye]

Quote:

Originally posted by JeffL It's not about volume! The amp does have a lot to do with that, but the SOURCE is responsible for the overall quality, before any pre-amps that the A2 has. I do not believe the A2 has a true headphone preamp. Along that note, neither does the PCI based M-Audio Audiophile, whereas the USB version does. You CAN use a RCA-1/8th adapter and plug in headphones, but the gain between a true line out and a headphone output is different, and you will get distortion.

Thanks for the info on the Audiophile.

Quote:

Back to the A2 amp though, you will definetly get a higher volume with a more powerful amp, but you will also get more clarity and refinement of detail because the amp will be able to power headphones more precisely.

Yes, I understand this. The prospect of an amp IMO is to allow you to turn down the volume of your source so you don't have to push it to distorting very easily. It's essentially just utilizing the old principle of having extra headroom to have cleaner power. Obviously different topologies of amp designs will excel in different areas in comparison to others. I'm not stating that the Audigy 2 has a gilmore reference class or ppa class amp built into it. I'm simply stating that from a volume stand-point it provides well over 5x more than enough for my needs.

Quote:

Given your situation, I would wait and get the money to at least upgrade both the source and the amp. Even a MINT type amp with a decent source will sound a whole lot better than just the A2 without an amp. If you want to get an amp later and use the Audiophile for just music, and the A2 for gaming, go with the USB audiophile. Of course the best choice of all would be the PCI audiophile with a true headphone amp.

That's the plan, the decision now is just which to go for first.

Quote:

OTOH, I would definetly look at upgrading the source right away and waiting on the amp if you want to do recording. The money you will save on the recording will buy you a very decent headphone amp, trust me, I have experience there.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I think this is the route I'll be taking. I'm just worried about the Audiophile USB's cpu utilization. I think I'm going to throw up a thread about it and see if I can find any thoughts. I'm also curious of if the Audiophile comes packed with any recording software like Logic, Cakewalk, Qbase or what-have-you.

If not, it's not too bad, recording software that I'd need wouldn't be too expensive (I can't imagine more than $100).

 

[Jasper994]

If you PM Iron_Dreamer he can probably help you a lot in the soundcard department.

Personally I would upgrade soundcard. Then download foobar2000, set it to upsample to 88.2khz/24bit dithered (I use strong ATH noise shaping but play with it, see what you like) in slow mode. I think you will be extreamly impressed with the results compared to an Audigy card.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by CrawlingEye Thanks, I appreciate it. I think this is the route I'll be taking. I'm just worried about the Audiophile USB's cpu utilization.

The CPU should not be a problem, since you won't be playing games with it, that is the only time where a soundcard's CPU useage can be large, and effect other system functions.

 

[CrawlingEye]

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron_Dreamer The CPU should not be a problem, since you won't be playing games with it, that is the only time where a soundcard's CPU useage can be large, and effect other system functions.

Thanks a lot, iron.

Do you think there's a better alternative out there for the money? I really would be pushing it with the usb audiophile

(which I can only find for $200 from credible sites and $170 from a sketchy yahoo shopping-found site)

As for the Foobar comment, I've tried foobar a couple times and thought it was a bit harsh, I prefered CoolPlayer with the CoolWave Mapper. I guess once I get my new soundcard, I'll have to retest them though.

 

[Jasper994]

Quote:

Originally posted by CrawlingEye Thanks, I appreciate it. I think this is the route I'll be taking. I'm just worried about the Audiophile USB's cpu utilization. I think I'm going to throw up a thread about it and see if I can find any thoughts. I'm also curious of if the Audiophile comes packed with any recording software like Logic, Cakewalk, Qbase or what-have-you. If not, it's not too bad, recording software that I'd need wouldn't be too expensive (I can't imagine more than $100).

The M-Audio website says it comes with the following:

Includes Maximum Audio Tools - Audio Version (included with M-Audio Delta, USB audio and Firewire products)

Ableton Live Delta audio sequencer (special edition)
M-Audio ProSession series WAV/REX samples (125MB)
ArKaos VJ VMP visual performance software (special edition)
IK Multimedia SampleTank SE VST sample player (special edition)
DSound RT Express VST host with WAV player (special edition)

 

[CrawlingEye]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jasper994 The M-Audio website says it comes with the following: Includes Maximum Audio Tools - Audio Version (included with M-Audio Delta, USB audio and Firewire products) Ableton Live Delta audio sequencer (special edition) M-Audio ProSession series WAV/REX samples (125MB) ArKaos VJ VMP visual performance software (special edition) IK Multimedia SampleTank SE VST sample player (special edition) DSound RT Express VST host with WAV player (special edition)

Thanks. I'm unaware of the that specific software, but it doesn't look like a bad bundle, judging solely from the names (and using educated guesses to assume what their purpose is).

If there is nothing better in my price-range, I think I'll be saving up for the Audiophile usb. It seems it'll give me the best upgrade path.