[Bigrock2150]

Hello all!
 
I'm trying to find a decent amp with built in dac for my Father. He's contemplating buying either the Denon d2000's or the D5000's but since he and I both are beginners 
in this amazing world of sound, we have no clue as to which amp he needs. He isn't cheap by any means but He certainly doesn't want to drop koo koo $ on his beginner setup. I mentioned the D7000's to him
and his eyebrows raised, so the d7000's may be an option as well.
 
I've ran across these (but like I said, I know just about Jack):
 
-Hifi ef2
 
-Ibasso d2+ boa
 
-Ibasso d10 (around $250)
 
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to get him the wrong setup and have him go back to his Beats By Dre! 
 
Thanks,
-Bigrock2150

 

[buz]

Is he going to use Coax/Optical or USB with the DAC?

 

[Bigrock2150]

He's most likely going to be using usb, he has a Macbook pro that he stores all of his music on. 

 

[buz]

You may also want to consider the uDac (cheapest of the bunch) and the Audinst MX1 then.

 

[Bigrock2150]

Awesome! Thanks for your feedback Buz, I'll write those down! Anyone else have any thoughts?

 

[Ypoknons]

There's no real point, imo, getting the Denon's and then cheaping out a source and amp. You'll only want to upgrade it later. I've used the Nuforce Icon as as headamp long enough to know that. Rather than going all out of getting and a D5/7000 and using it with a D10 or EF2 or uDAC, I would rather spend in the $300-400 range - Audio GD Fun, etc... There's also entirely no point looking at battery powered portables (or even USB powered) for home use. 
 
There's also no real point getting the D7000 as your first headphones, and especially your first piece of hi-fi equipment - what if you get them and end up finding out that Denon's aren't your kind of sound? 

 

[Bigrock2150]

I don't know much about amps but the d7000's are only rated at 25ohm impedance. Isn't $300-400 a little unecessary? I mean I could understand if the d7000's were 600ohm and needed tons of power. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all amps do is apply sufficient power to "drive" the HP's drivers right? Or is there something I'm missing?
Thanks for your imput btw!

 

[Bigrock2150]

If he doesn't like the sound we would just return them to amazon. Plus anything has to be an improvment over his beats by dre right? He doesn't like to take long to search for things he likes, so he often ends up settling with old electronics/tech. I might as well pick the best because he'll be using it until it literatlly falls apart. He doesn't really have the Upgraditis disease like myself and so many others do.
 

 

[Ypoknons]

1. Lower impedance does not mean less power, and price does not mean more power. All amps, move drivers, no doubt, but there are differences in circuit design, ability to provide voltage and current, and ability to control the drivers. In general, the difference is that low impedance cans need current and high impedance cans need voltage. If you say he wants the best, something that can last time a long time, I see no point running a D7000 or D5000 out of a battery powered portable amp. In fact, I've just been doing a lot of testing my own D5000's, and I'd say if on a budget, go with the D5000's out of an iPod/laptop, or else go to a full setup that's versatile and useful for many headphones. Getting something that's $100-200 is not that much better than straight out of a portable (it will cure some sibilance), and I'd only recommend that if you're short on cash or live a very mobile lifestyle. No point going halfway. This from my own experience and technical knowledge.
 
2. The problem, is that there is no best. I know the D5000's, and I know they aren't for everyone, given their bass. It is entirely possible he will be happier with a HD600 from say, a Darkvoice OTL tube amp, than say a uDAC -> D7000's. My experience is that there's no point putting money into the >$500 headphone range without having sampled some combinations based around <$3-500 headphones. 
 
And there is also no point buying >$500 without taking good care of amplification and source. Headphones, after all, make the biggest difference. A good, versatile amplifier, however, can be used for several headphones with good success. The amazon return period is useless to you, because you are right in that coming from the Beats, the Denons will sound amazing, because you have no other point of reference. However, my advice comes from more experience with different setups over the years, and from having the D5000's here. 
 
That is not to say, I suppose, that there is no $100-200 amp that is worth it, so of course others will have to chime in here. My experience is finite, no doubt. 

 

[buz]

 
Quote:

Getting something that's $100-200 is not that much better than straight out of a portable (it will cure some sibilance), and I'd only recommend that if you're short on cash or live a very mobile lifestyle. No point going halfway. This from my own experience and technical knowledge.

 
 
I very much disagree with that. My D2000 sounds abysmal out of my Laptop or Sansa Clip+, but pretty decent out of the NG98 (which is a sub 150USD device), especially with rolled opamps.
 
Having said that, the Denon will likely fall apart before others (they are comfortable but a little flimsy if you ask me) so you might look after build quality more than one would usually do

 

[kunalraiker]

particular reason you are getting a closed headphone.

 

[Ypoknons]

I can't know every device, so I do hope that's true. I did some quick research, shows some potential, I see, though I don't think the D5000 sounds abysmal out of a laptop. 
 
Quote:

I very much disagree with that. My D2000 sounds abysmal out of my Laptop or Sansa Clip+, but pretty decent out of the NG98 (which is a sub 150USD device), especially with rolled opamps.
 
Having said that, the Denon will likely fall apart before others (they are comfortable but a little flimsy if you ask me) so you might look after build quality more than one would usually do

 

[buz]

Ypoknons: I will try it with the M-Stage tonight, so I will have some perspective on how it is as an amp tonight (although the DAC will still be feeding the M-Stage .

 

[Ypoknons]

Please do. I have no doubt it's a reasonable DAC, just a bit a wary of its amp performance. 

 

[buz]

The M-Stage is a definite improvement (especially because it's pot tracks properly in low volume) but I feel like the opamp rolled NG98 is performing surprisingly well with the D2000 for the price (except for being of limited use with the sensitive D2000 because the gain is so high).
 
What is much more impressive is how well it makes the RX700 sound! Plenty of skull shaking bass (it will always have that) but now there is actually decent mid and treble as well.