[pedalhead]

Why would you upsample using a non oversampling DAC? Suggest to just do a listening test using both, I expect you need to listen for a while to spot listening fatigue.

I don't have the Adagio yet, just wondering on the generally accepted method. Obviously I'll do some listening tests myself when the time comes. I seem to recall, back when I had a Metrum Hex a few years ago, that using upsampling to 176 kHz had a positive effect at the time.

Sorry this is long, but I wanted to share it because it’s relevant to pedalhead’s question. Back in 2017 I put this question to Cees:

Do you have an opinion on the difference in sound quality of a native 44.1 redbook stream versus the same file upsampled to 384k going into the USB input on the Musette? Personally I am having a hard time noticing much difference using HQplayer on my laptop to try it out...

His answer:

My opinion is that you cannot create more information as available in the red book standard. Compare a single sample with a battery having a certain voltage, it is not more than that. Up sampling has more effect on oversampling dacs as this technique will reduce ringing caused by very steep FIR filters. But as you know NOS dacs do not use steep filters so there is no risk for ringing and therefore there is no real difference between the original samples and the interpolated data created by up sampling. Further investigating from my side is that there are many algorithms to do the up sampling but some of them are not free from artefacts. Especially these artefacts can be noticed as a kind of improvement which is wrong of course.

Thanks, interesting info.

I do wish Cees/Metrum put a bit more info out there about their design approach. Same thing is happening with the DAC3 modules...they're taking orders but haven't actually posted any useful info on them yet. Metrum have been quickly replying to me about the sale of an Adagio + DAC3 modules, but when I ask about the actual changes/benefits of DAC3 I just get silence. Considering the recent events at the company, it doesn't inspire confidence.

 

[marcelnl]

Metrum is still working on the website to release the info and the modules, as far as I'm aware...did they release the DAC modules yet? Their website is not listing them yet.

 

[pedalhead]

Metrum is still working on the website to release the info and the modules, as far as I'm aware...did they release the DAC modules yet? Their website is not listing them yet.

I've been quoted a price for the DAC3 modules with an Adagio, so as far as I'm concerned they are taking money for the new modules, but no info about them still.

 

[marcelnl]

Not trying to outsmart you, but you are aware that Sonnet may be a cost effective solution? (unless you really need the pre amp) AFAIK it has the new DAC units and variable gain.

yeah the info should have been out already, no idea why it is not yet out...

 

[pedalhead]

Yes, I've had a look at the Sonnet. It worries me that Cees appears not to be heavily involved in Metrum any more, and if the DAC3 modules are similar to those in the Morpheus, the latter is around half the price.

 

[marcelnl]

from what I gather is that Cees is involved but indeed more remotely, I think Metrum is still getting back to business so it's a bit early to judge.
Sonnet will release a higher end model DAC, or so I gather (all hearsay so don't pin me down on that), ultimately waiting for the next new and improved model makes one wait forever...

I made up my mind to vote for the Morpheus once I'm ready to pull the trigger (or it's successor if that takes long), other construction sites need attention first; a serious audio PC build and a tube amp build that is getting out of hand fast with astonishingly few components but surprisingly high price tags....a couple of 400H custom hand wound chokes being one of those parts...
Another option may be a Metrum DAC as some may get dumped in upgraditis now the DAC 3 modules arrive.

 

[George Hincapie]

I had a conversation with someone from Sonnet who said that someone at Metrum 'trained by Cees' will do development so he can focus on Sonnet. FWIW and all of that, fact is that we'll see and have to wait until the first units arrive.

About I2S, someone else from Metrum shared with me they prefer I2S, my statement about I2S was not about every implementation of I2S versus every implementation of USB and or SPDIF, so YMMV. In my setup the difference between USB and I2S was large, the difference between I2S and SPDIF smaller but still significant enough to make me vastly prefer it.
Not hearing any difference might point at something else in the chain restricting things, it's not as if my car stereo would reveal the finer nuances between high end cables. (and I'm sooooo happy about that because I'd have another constant development area on my hands real soon)

It might, but given the cost of my system I am not sure what that can be.

I don't use USB on the Adagio as the I2S module is in there. The Ambre feeds it from a bridged ethernet connection on my Roon server (a Sonic Transporter power by a Farad Super Cap supply).

To my ears, there is no difference between I2S, SPDIF Coax and AES/EBU on the Adagio that I can detect. I have always known Metrum USB to be inferior to the other connection types, so it doesn't surprise me that you are able to hear an improvement switching from USB.

I'm pleased you are happy with the way your systems sounds; it's great to have a period of enjoyment before you start lusting after the next greatest thing

 

[George Hincapie]

Yes, I've had a look at the Sonnet and am seriously considering cancelling the Adagio order. It worries me that Cees appears not to be heavily involved in Metrum any more, and if the DAC3 modules are similar to those in the Morpheus, the latter is around half the price.

Regardless, the Adagio is one of the best DACs out there. I have never regretted buying mine, it's an incredible piece of engineering

 

[roncagg]

Any updates on the DAC3 modules? I signed up awhile ago but haven’t heard anything.

 

[pedalhead]

Any updates on the DAC3 modules? I signed up awhile ago but haven’t heard anything.

Not that I'm aware of. The UK dealer has been trying to get information out of Metrum but with no success.

 

[marcelnl]

there is a news release dated Feb 17th saying they start shipping in 2 weeks (I got the info the modules are ready to ship and work was ongoing to setup sales and distribution), that is approx 3 weeks ago so any day now...

 

[LevPush]

there is a news release dated Feb 17th saying they start shipping in 2 weeks (I got the info the modules are ready to ship and work was ongoing to setup sales and distribution), that is approx 3 weeks ago so any day now...

You know...Europeans...

 

[ZombieMelvile]

I am new to forum, I have been updating my system for so many years and recently got my first integrated valve amplifier Synthesis, Roma 510 AC, and Lumin U1 min Streamer ( not received yet). I started looking for DACs and came across R2R DACs. Initially I was attracted to Denafrips, then I found Holo Audio, but then I discovered Metrum Acoustic and got sucked in the great reviews they get.

Reading through forums, I see Cees is back in the helm but also in the meantime he has developed a new company and released Sonnett Morpheus. I wanted to know is he just giving Metrum a helping hand, developing DAC3 ,or is he going to be with Metrum long term and how is that going to affect his new company.

both Morpheus and Onyx with the new DAC 3 will be appealing to me

I appreciate it is probably a question for Cees himself, I just want the assurance that if I buy from any of these two companies that there will be customer support and update for a least good few years, I don want to invest in a DAC to see the company disappear after a short period of time

 

[Contrails]

I just put in an order for Flint DAC two. I did ask if it was possible to get the Flint with DAC 3 module but I got told the DAC 2 was the best option for Flint.

 

[George Hincapie]

I am new to forum, I have been updating my system for so many years and recently got my first integrated valve amplifier Synthesis, Roma 510 AC, and Lumin U1 min Streamer ( not received yet). I started looking for DACs and came across R2R DACs. Initially I was attracted to Denafrips, then I found Holo Audio, but then I discovered Metrum Acoustic and got sucked in the great reviews they get.

Reading through forums, I see Cees is back in the helm but also in the meantime he has developed a new company and released Sonnett Morpheus. I wanted to know is he just giving Metrum a helping hand, developing DAC3 ,or is he going to be with Metrum long term and how is that going to affect his new company.

both Morpheus and Onyx with the new DAC 3 will be appealing to me

I appreciate it is probably a question for Cees himself, I just want the assurance that if I buy from any of these two companies that there will be customer support and update for a least good few years, I don want to invest in a DAC to see the company disappear after a short period of time

I completely understand.

Many of us are similarly waiting for some clarity around the future for Metrum. Communication has never been Cees strong point, but someone in the Sonnet/Metrum partnership needs to get a grip and let everyone know what's going on.

As it is, I won't be increasing my £13,000 investment in Metrum products.

A friend, who introduced me to Metrum some years ago, has recently sold up and moved to another brand. I'm not quite ready to do that yet, but for sure I don't feel so passionate about the brand as I once did.