[KR...]

That settles that

 

[secretagent44]

Umm...no

I agree with all the above except for VCR's, which is okay with an apostrophe. Apostrophes *can* be used to indicate a plural noun in certain situations. I'd really rather not repeat this whole issue again though!

Here's some help from a favorite band:
http://www.old97s.com/track3/factoids.htm

Look at the "Apostrophe" section

 

[tanfenton]

The Modern Language Association recommends omitting apostrophes in plurals of numbers and abbreviations, FWIW.

NGF

 

[MacDEF]

LOL, unfortunately, Old97's are using "old" rules of grammar

Thanks for the comic, KR

 

[gaineso]

I seem to remember, amazing isn't it, that we went through all this not too long ago.

Jude settled it since he is THE BOSS.

It's officially, for the forum, apostrophe s ('s) 'cause he likes it that way.

BTW, so do I.

 

[MacDEF]

Does that mean that the HD600, Max, Cardas RCA caps, BPT power blocks, 333ES, etc. are all the official products of the forums, since Jude uses them?

 

[eric343]

Actually, when you think about it, they *are*

They're like the standard components. Most people have '600s, many people have/want/like Maxes, the 333ES is a nice middle-of-the road player (not a random crap Sony Sports PCDP, not a Meridian Reference), BPT power is pretty well acknowledged to help with the sound, and a whole bunch of people have/want/like them, etc...

 

[millerdog]

Don't get me started....the correct way would be...
Grado's SR60 headphones sound...
Not ...The Grado SR60s sound....
I believe the apostrophy suggests relation or ownership, without the apostrophy, it is plural...
I got two pairs of Grado SR60s...ie, I got two Chevys.
Then again in nomenclature, since headphones have two sides...
Uh...I got a pair of Grados!
I got a pair of pants! Althought in actuality, I only have one uh..pant...lol...and a SET of grado headphones.
If I were an editor, I would let discrepancies in quotes go...and fix those that were in normal text.
whatever..
md

 

[kerelybonto]

Well, it'd be correct to say "Grado's SR60s" in that sense, millerdog, but it would also be correct to say "Grado SR60s," since that's the complete make and model. Just like you can say "Ford's Mustang," but in most circumstances it works better to say "Ford Mustang."

It's true that people greatly misuse the apostrophe. In most normal grammatical situations, apostrophes should never be used to pluralize anything. Certainly writing "Grado's" to mean multiple pairs of headphones is wrong. But here at Head-Fi and other places where abbreviations and acronyms and model names (often that don't mean anything) are commonly discussed, the rules blur.

Take for instance, an abbreviation such as that for the baseball term of runs-batted-in, RBI. Often it will appear as "RBIs" or "RBI's", but both are technically incorrect because the abbreviation is inherently plural. This applies even to abbreviations that are not commonly plural -- take POS, the oft-used abbreviation for that pleasant visualization, piece of ****. If I were to write "Senn HD600s are POSs," I would be wrong, because the plural within the abbreviation is pieces. The abbreviation for pieces (plural!) of **** is still POS. It's kind of like when you write attorney-general and attorneys-general, not attorney-generals, except not really.

So anyway, I don't care when people pluralize abbreviations, even though they're wrong. Many dictionaries and grammar texts present rules for pluralizing abbreviations, oblivious, I guess, to the logic of language. It really would be easier to just kick someone every time he writes a plural abbreviation, because trying to formulate rules for the process is, well, difficult. Take, for example, our friend POS. In speech, if we were to pluralize it, we would say it with an "es" sound on the end. So should we write POSes? Clearly not, since we only pluralize things with an "es" when they end in an "e" (and a few other rare circumstances).

So now we're just more confused, aren't we? I think Webster's and some other literary ruler-makers actually suggest (agah!) using an apostrophe to pluralize abbreviations and acronyms ending in "s." (Did you see that? Of course I didn't mean ending in an "s" and a period, but that's what it looked like because I crammed both inside the quotes. The rule tells us that you can't have punctuation following a quote -- but I don't want it inside the quote either! What to do!) Similar confusion occurs with acronyms, those damn cute abbreviations that spell out words. If, for instance I had the acronym CACTUS, which stood for, say, Citizens Against Corny Teutonic Uber-Soldiers or something similarly strange, how should I pluralize it, given the unimaginable need to do so? I could do the standard CACTUSs or CACTUS's, or going by speech, CACTUSes. But then recall that the correct plural of cactus is cacti. Hmm.

Also, what about the differences between American and Commonwealth English? For instance, we Americans write our acronyms in all caps, but Brits and their crew often write them with only the first letter capitalized. See AIDS versus Aids. Obviously you use whichever version you're supposed to use (if you're an American in London, I don't know what you do), but the difference between the two will also lead to differences in pluralizations. Let's adhere to our rules and we'll just let the Brits be wrong.

Numbers seem a bit more clear -- there should be any reason to use an appostrophe, should there? 1990s works, so why use 1990's? Well, I don't know. I use the former, but some people, for instance Funk & Wagnalls, if I recall correctly, say the latter is correct, at least for years.

But back to more relevent topics -- model names/numbers. Whenever I write Sennheiser HD600 as plural (which I do rarely, since I don't own even one pair), I write HD600s. But I can defintely see how using an apostrophe would be acceptable, if not better, since in my version of the plural it may appear that the "s" is part of the model name/number, when in fact it is not. (Of course, I don't think that's the logic most people use for pluralizing it HD600's, but whatever.) Then take the Etymonics Research ER4-series. Two varieties, right? -- the ER4s and the ER4p. Well now. Notice in the first that we already have a lower-case "s" at the end. So it probably wouldn't work well to write ER4ss -- there I can definitely see how writing ER4s's would be better. Then again, we say it with an "es."

A solution to all these kinds of problems, though tedious and somewhat odd looking, is to italicize the model name/number and not italicize the "s" or whatever you use to pluralize it. Very subtle, elegant approach, if you ask me. But if anyone ever did that, I'd shoot them for being anal-retentive. I don't like anal-retentive people.

Anyway, my fingers hurt. Next time you want to pluralize it, do whatever the hell you want. I don't care. I'm sure we'll all understand you, even if some of us will also be sitting at our computers muttering, "****ing idiot. Learn to write."

kerelybonto

 

[kerelybonto]

Ach mein Gott! Estoy loco!

kerelybonto

 

[tanfenton]

Quote:

Originally posted by kerelybonto (Did you see that? Of course I didn't mean ending in an "s" and a period, but that's what it looked like because I crammed both inside the quotes. The rule tells us that you can't have punctuation following a quote -- but I don't want it inside the quote either! What to do!)[/B]

My sides hurt. I'll sleep on that one. Great, great post, Kerely.

NGF

 

[MacDEF]

EXCELLENT (and entertaining) post, kerely

Quote:

Then take the Etymonics Research ER4-series. Two varieties, right? -- the ER4s and the ER4p. Well now. Notice in the first that we already have a lower-case "s" at the end. So it probably wouldn't work well to write ER4ss -- there I can definitely see how writing ER4s's would be better. Then again, we say it with an "es."

Actually, to nitpick, it's not ER4s; it's ER-4S (capitalized and hyphenated)

Quote:

A solution to all these kinds of problems, though tedious and somewhat odd looking, is to italicize the model name/number and not italicize the "s" or whatever you use to pluralize it. Very subtle, elegant approach, if you ask me. But if anyone ever did that, I'd shoot them for being anal-retentive.

Very good suggestion. Also, very appropriate response

Quote:

Anyway, my fingers hurt. Next time you want to pluralize it, do whatever the hell you want. I don't care. I'm sure we'll all understand you, even if some of us will also be sitting at our computers muttering, "****ing idiot. Learn to write."

ROFL!

 

[Jeff Guidry]

Quote:

Originally posted by kerelybonto Ach mein Gott! Estoy loco! kerelybonto

Si.

 

[millerdog]

Actually in these type(s) of forum(s) I don('t) care if you do or do not use the correct punctuation(s).
Though I must admit, my pet peeve is the misuse of your and you're.
Okay dammit! I'm anal! If I only had ruler to slap some hand(s)......
md
by the way, I alway(s) spell the color gray as grey.....
hmmmmmmmmmmm........

 

[Duncan]

Quote:

Originally posted by millerdog Actually in these type(s) of forum(s) I don('t) care if you do or do not use the correct punctuation(s).

Shouldn't that be:

Quote:

Actually, in this type of forum I don't care if you do, or do not use the correct punctuation.

hehehe, this is one that could go on forever, and i'm not singling you out millerdog... just, one persons correctness is another persons mistake.