[chicolom]

Hmm..I guess my choices are:
 
1) Get:  Headstreamer       +   E9
2) Get:  Music Streamer II  +   E9, maybe get lucky with fixing clipping
3) Get:  Music Streamer II  +    a new Amp
 
:\
 
 - not trying to thread hijack BTW, continue the OP's question

 

[Zombie_X]

That's what I was talking about. The amp itself does not have enough juice for any of the high impedance headphones. To me that is an issue as the T1 is probably the easiest 600Ohm headphone to amp. I man the T1 does sound nice out of it be the compression is there. The T1 easily sounds and performs the best out of all the 600Ohm beyers on this amp. The DT770-DT990 sounds much more wonky and the soundstage is even further compressed. Even the 250Ohm beyers don't sound all that good on this amp nor do they perform that well. Saying this amp can drive the 250Ohm beyers is not true at all. 
 
I'm sorry if it seems I am bashing the amp but IMO it's that impressive for it's price at all.
 
A nice affordable amp would be the Matrix M-Stage. It's about $250 and does a far, far better job at amping all above said headphones.
 
Quote:

Now that you mention it, a big problem I have with the E9/T1 pairing is that the dynamics seem very compressed.  Higher intensity passages of vocals sound very restrained and just can't seem to let out the pent up energy.  I actually posted about it here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/508836/the-official-beyerdynamic-t1-owners-club-appreciation-discussion-thread/1545#post_7893613
 
I take it that it's a limitations of the E9 and not the T1, right?  Hopefully the SOHA II will be a step up.
 

 

 

[Gwarmi]

 
Hopefully this upcoming thread of mine (when this Fiio shipment lands at my store!) will bring about some robust
conversation and discussion ~ it really needs a thorough run down with all sorts of headphones.
 
I agree, the limited exposure I've had with it suggests it bellies it's tiny price ~ however, every now and then
you see suggestions or comments that seem out of whack with it's probable potential, statements of fan-boyism
gone crazy.
 
I've seen threads where proud HD650 owners maintain that their E9 performs as well if not better
than any amp under $1000 ~ don't want to make pre conclusions before the test but this seems like hot
air to me. 

 

[chicolom]

Quote:

A nice affordable amp would be the Matrix M-Stage. It's about $250 and does a far, far better job at amping all above said headphones.
 
 

 
Curious, do you find the M-stage to be on the warm side? 

 

[Chris J]

FWTW,
 
I have a Q701 and Matrix M Stage e/w OPA627 w/Class A bias, gotta say this combo really does it for me.
 
I also have a La Figaro 336C, if you go by the textbook the output impedance of the 336C is probably way to high to drive a Q701 properly but I gotta say I like this combo in spite of the high output impedance. 
 
Edit:  BTW, I think this whole "the AKG K70x headphones need a lot of power" thing is very overrated. They are low efficiency, low impedance headphones so you will need a bit more current to drive them than (for example) a pair of Grados, but I can get reasonably good sound and volume from my Q's out of an iPad. But they do sound much better out of my Matrix M Stage.
I looked at the box the Q701 came in: spec is 105 dB SPL @ 1 volt.
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

That's what I was talking about. The amp itself does not have enough juice for any of the high impedance headphones. To me that is an issue as the T1 is probably the easiest 600Ohm headphone to amp. I man the T1 does sound nice out of it be the compression is there. The T1 easily sounds and performs the best out of all the 600Ohm beyers on this amp. The DT770-DT990 sounds much more wonky and the soundstage is even further compressed. Even the 250Ohm beyers don't sound all that good on this amp nor do they perform that well. Saying this amp can drive the 250Ohm beyers is not true at all. 
 
I'm sorry if it seems I am bashing the amp but IMO it's that impressive for it's price at all.
 
A nice affordable amp would be the Matrix M-Stage. It's about $250 and does a far, far better job at amping all above said headphones.
 
 

 
That's just complete nonsense in every possible way. Sorry, but that's just my opinion and I couldn't let this one go. Even a decent portable amp such as the Total Airhead can drive the 250 ohm well enough. Maybe it's just that you don't like how they sound with the E9? Doesn't mean it can't drive them. You haven't been hanging around Graphicism have you?

 
First you say the DJ100 can be driven from a Sansa Clip (yes, if you like ultra low volume) and now you say the E9 won't drive the 250 ohm Beyers. I don't know what to believe!

I do think most all Beyerdynamic headphones in the DT-770-990 series are hard to drive somewhat. Yet everyone suggests the 32 ohm version absolutely doesn't need an amp at all. I don't agree with that. Didn't you say earlier than the 600 ohm DT-880 wasn't any more difficult to drive than the 32 ohm version? I never found that to be the case at all.
 
Maybe it's more due to amp synergy more so than the E9 not being able to drive the 250 ohm headphones well. E9 isn't a good match for some headphones. Seriously, you just assume it can't drive the Beyers because it doesn't sound like you'd expect? Many amps i've tried make a headphone sound like crap despite it having more than enough power to drive them. Nothing new there.
 
Someone should really find out proof about how well the E9 can drive specific headphones such as the 250 ohm and 600 ohm Beyers.
 
One headphone is hard to drive and someone always has to make it out to be 5x harder to drive. I even heard people saying the K501 requires a tube amp and no SS amp has the juice to drive it. What a joke! Next week I'll probably hear that the SRH-940 requires a WA22 to be at it's best.
 
 

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

 
That's just complete nonsense in every possible way. Sorry, but that's just my opinion and I couldn't let this one go. Even a decent portable amp such as the Total Airhead can drive the 250 ohm well enough. Maybe it's just that you don't like how they sound with the E9? Doesn't mean it can't drive them.
You haven't been hanging around Graphicism have you?

 
First you say the DJ100 can be driven from a Sansa Clip (yes, if you like ultra low volume) and now you say the E9 won't drive the 250 ohm Beyers. I don't know what to believe!

I do think most all Beyerdynamic headphones are hard to drive somewhat. Yet everyone suggests the 32 ohm version absolutely doesn't need an amp at all. Hey didn't you say earlier than the 600 ohm DT-880 wasn't any more difficult to drive than the 32 ohm version? I never found that to be the case at all.
 
Maybe it's more due to amp synergy more so than the E9 not being able to drive the 250 ohm headphones well. E9 isn't a good match for some headphones. Seriously, you just assume it can't drive the Beyers because it doesn't sound like you'd expect? Many amps i've tried make a headphone sound like crap despite it having more than enough power to drive them. Nothing new there.
 
Someone should really find out proof about how well the E9 can drive specific headphones such as the 250 ohm and 600 ohm Beyers.
 
One headphone is hard to drive and someone always has to make it out to be 5x harder to drive. I even heard people saying the K501 requires a tube amp and no SS amp has the juice to drive it. What a joke! Next week I'll probably hear that the SRH-940 requires a WA22 to be at it's best.
 
 

 
 Wonder if this 'Dark Star' business from this Ray Samuels guy has enough juice to amp these K501's that came in the mail...Hmmmm..let me see, set to high gain
 crank volume over to full, and.... <decapitated>
 

 
 
 

 

[chicolom]

My KSC75's require the Senneheiser Orpheus to sound best.

Yes, that right - I have special electrostat KSC75s.

 

[Chris J]

 
I just checked out the specs on the E9.
It uses the TPA6120A2 headphone amp chip from Texas Instruments.
In theory, if used properly the TPA6120SA should have enough power to drive just about any headphone: 25 ohm, 250 ohm, 600 ohm, high efficiency, low efficiency, etc.
In addition, Texas Instruments recommends using a 10 ohm resistor, means output impedance will be 10 ohms.
So why did FIIO make the 1/8" jack with a higher impedance than the 1/4" jack...........IMHO it was a really bad decision.
 
OTOH, it's only $100!.

 

[chicolom]

Chris J, you don't find the M-stage too warm with the Q701? 
 
Thats the main concern I have with the pairing.  I love the Q701s but I don't want them any warmer, and I could probably even take them a little colder (although the Music Streamer should help with that a little over my warm E10 dac).  Really I just want it to be neutral, all the way from source -> to amp -> to headphones - as I like the Q701s signature. 
 
I know people like the K70x with the M-stage as it warms them up a little, but I don't think the Q701s need that.
 
Thoughts?

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
I just checked out the specs on the E9.
It uses the TPA6120A2 headphone amp chip from Texas Instruments.
In theory, if used properly the TPA6120SA should have enough power to drive just about any headphone: 25 ohm, 250 ohm, 600 ohm, high efficiency, low efficiency, etc.
In addition, Texas Instruments recommends using a 10 ohm resistor, means output impedance will be 10 ohms.
So why did FIIO make the 1/8" jack with a higher impedance than the 1/4" jack...........IMHO it was a really bad decision.
 
OTOH, if everyone says the E9 sounds like crap it probably does sound like crap. For $100 the power supply has gotta be cheap, cheap, cheap.

I don't think anyone says it sounds like crap. Maybe like less than 5% of the people who own it. Usually those with an HD-800, LCD4, T1 or $2000 amps.
Saying it can't drive a 250 ohm headphone is a new low for Head-Fi.
 
Where is that NWAVGuy when you need him. I think he reviewed the E9. BTW according to Head-Fi it seems like if any desktop amp is small, it can't drive a 600 ohm headphone! It needs to be massive and have lots of tubes sticking out of the top. The larger it is the more easily it can drive headphones!
This is a FACT!! If it doesn't weigh as much as a brick it can't drive a 600 ohm headphone.
 
Every amp I ever had is not good enough to drive a headphone I have plugged into it despite it sounding great to my ears! The Asgard included! My $330 Headroom Micro Amp? Can only drive the Porta Pro due to it being half the size of the E9!
 
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Chris J, you don't find the M-stage too warm with the Q701? 
 
Thats the main concern I have with the pairing.  I love the Q701s but I don't want them any warmer, and I could probably even take them a little colder (although the Music Streamer should help with that a little over my warm E10 dac).  Really I just want it to be neutral, all the way from source -> to amp -> to headphones - as I like the Q701s signature. 
 
I know people like the K70x with the M-stage as it warms them up a little, but I don't think the Q701s need that.
 
Thoughts?

I actually find the HRT to be very slightly warm, but it actually doesn't hurt the Q701 AT ALL. I do like it a bit less with the HD-598 though. I think the HD-650 MIGHT be a bad idea for the HRT, but maybe not.
 
I really need to compare my Micro Amp to the M-Stage. Could have sworn they use the same chips, but this rarely means anything when it comes to sound.
 
EDIT: Looks like both the M-Stage and Headroom Micro Amp use the OPA2134. Not sure how they compare. I found the Micro Amp is be fairly warm, but not enough to be an issue for the Q701. Absolutely love the Micro Amp with the Q701. I wonder if the M-Stage sounds similar?
 
 
 

 

[chicolom]

Quote:

I actually find the HRT to be very slightly warm, but it actually doesn't hurt the Q701 AT ALL. I do like it a bit less with the HD-598 though. I think the HD-650 MIGHT be a bad idea for the HRT, but maybe not.
 
I really need to compare my Micro Amp to the M-Stage. Could have sworn they use the same chips, but this rarely means anything when it comes to sound.
 
EDIT: Looks like both the M-Stage and Headroom Micro Amp use the OPA2134. Not sure how they compare. I found the Micro Amp is be fairly warm, but not enough to be an issue for the Q701. Absolutely love the Micro Amp with the Q701. I wonder if the M-Stage sounds similar?

Yes, I've read that about the HRT as well.  Slightly warm.  But not too bad.  The thing that keeps the HRT at the top of the list is reviews on its soundstage performance, where it seems to get a lot of praise.  I'm not sure it can be beaten at that price (although if anyone knows of a DAC with better soundstage for sub $150 please chime in!)
 
You should read this post comparing the M-stage, Asgard, and Micro amp:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/475618/matrix-m-stage-amp-review-simple-cheap-and-excellent/870#post_6923163
 
If I got the M-stage I think I would swap the opamp to a brighter one I believe and do the class A bias mod.

 

[MonoNation]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it so far in the multiplicity of suggested amps but the Creek OBH-11 will work, I find 10:30 setting of the volume control is plenty for any recording even ones mastered quietly.  The AKG701/2 does seem to be relatively inefficient so won't work so well with a low powered portable source but I'm not sure how critical it is really on amp requirements.  The OBH-11 spec sheet says isn't too specific on power output: "> 10 mW into 30 Ω to 300 Ω loads", not sure how much > 10mW output really is into the AKG701.
I can listen with the headphone output of my EMU 0202 USB DAC as well but the volume knob needs to rotated a lot further and I prefer to use the Creek - but there isn't - to me - a big difference in sound at low levels between the Creek & 0202.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Yes, I've read that about the HRT as well.  Slightly warm.  But not too bad.  The thing that keeps the HRT at the top of the list is reviews on its soundstage performance, where it seems to get a lot of praise.  I'm not sure it can be beaten at that price (although if anyone knows of a DAC with better soundstage for sub $150 please chime in!)
 
You should read this post comparing the M-stage, Asgard, and Micro amp:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/475618/matrix-m-stage-amp-review-simple-cheap-and-excellent/870#post_6923163
 
If I got the M-stage I think I would swap the opamp to a brighter one I believe and do the class A bias mod.

 
Wow, that is a VERY weird coincidence! I was just reading that same post before you posted the link

Looks like the Micro amp might hold up well to the M-Stage. Micro Amp seems to have a smaller soundstage and more upper mids, but that's a huge plus for me. Still would like to hear the M-Stage. The tiny size of the Micro Amp is kind of nice though!
I believe the M-Stage still might be on sale for $200, but the shipping is stupid expensive. Too bad they don't have a US distributor! I think shipping was $80 or something.
 
Never liked the Asgard much, but it was great with the HD-600! Sold my Asgard and got the Micro amp. Main reason is that it was a nice match for BOTH the HD-650 and K702 I had at the time. Hate the K702 with the Asgard.
I actually skipped the M-Stage because I couldn't find it outside Ebay back then. I love buying US built amps though.