[ginetto61]

Hi !  just a kind request of advice from who is familiar with the akg k701.
The earpads have variable thickness.
I have placed them with the thicker part on the back of the ear ... is it correct ?
Moreover i find them a little stiff.  Is there any good alternative on the market ?
Thanks and regards 
gino  

 

[sikki-six]

That's correct. The cable comes out of the left cup.

EDIT: I bet it says L and R somewhere too.

 

[ginetto61]

That's correct. The cable comes out of the left cup.
EDIT: I bet it says L and R somewhere too.

HI and thanks a lot for the advice
I was looking at the Audeze LCD-2 and also them have thicker pads on the back of the ears.
so i guess is a general solution for improving the soundstage.?
Thanks again, gino 

 

[VGoghs earfrmsc]

Yes, thick part of pads to the rear.  Try AKG 702 65th anniversary edition ear pads. More bass but less airiness with them. A good compromise.

 

[ginetto61]

Yes, thick part of pads to the rear. 
Try AKG 702 65th anniversary edition ear pads. More bass but less airiness with them. A good compromise.

Hi thanks a lot indeed for the valuable advice. I think i found them 
 
http://www.head-fi.org/g/i/716722/the-ear-pads-are-some-kind-of-memory-foam-covered-with-velour-they-are-very-very-soft-and-super-comfortable/sort/display_order/
 
In the k701 the headband pushes a little too much the earpads against the skull.
Not hurting but a little annoying. 
Thanks again, gino 

 

[VGoghs earfrmsc]

FYI there are people who wear the HPs with the angled pads reversed, seemed to improve acoustic guitar if  I remember correctly. Oh heres some info re headband mods.

 

[ginetto61]

FYI there are people who wear the HPs with the angled pads reversed, seemed to improve acoustic guitar if  I remember correctly.

 
Hi and thanks a lot for the valuable advice.
Actually i tried also the reversed position, and the sound indeed changes.
But placing the thicker part behind the ears gives me a more natural sound maybe ?  overall i like them better this way.
And again i see many other HPs with variabile thickness earcushions (like Audezes) where the thicker part is on the back of the ears.
 
http://www.synergyhifi.com/uploadfile/20120919091530666.jpg
 
I think that the goal is to reproduce a situation like this one here ...
 
https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6010/5934920830_ba2eb3ac1f_n.jpg
 

 
Still the earcushions are a little hard/stiff ... i will buy the others softer mentioned above.
I guess that they can provide a better seal around the ear also.
 

Oh heres some info re headband mods.

 
The link is missing ...

Thanks a lot again, gino

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginetto61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Hi and thanks a lot for the valuable advice.

Actually i tried also the reversed position, and the sound indeed changes.

But placing the thicker part behind the ears gives me a more natural sound maybe ?  overall i like them better this way.

And again i see many other HPs with variabile thickness earcushions (like Audezes) where the thicker part is on the back of the ears.

 

http://www.synergyhifi.com/uploadfile/20120919091530666.jpg

 

I think that the goal is to reproduce a situation like this one here ...

 

https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6010/5934920830_ba2eb3ac1f_n.jpg

 

In bot hcases they basically mimic the relative position of the drivers to the ear canal. Red line is typical headphone position, boxes are what they would amount to if they were speakers, something you don't do. The black lines (K7--, HD700, HD800, T1, Qualia, etc) simulate the front and toe-in position of speakers. Except while this minimizes the "trident tips" soundstage it can't do the physically impossible task of making them sound completely outside of your head.

 
 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginetto61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Still the earcushions are a little hard/stiff ... i will buy the others softer mentioned above.

I guess that they can provide a better seal around the ear also.

 

If you wear the earpads they'll soften up over time, however because of the self-adjusting AKG headband that ensures a relatively light clamping force that you can't customize unless your head is too big, it's going to take a lot longer. Try putting the K701's on a row of books that are slightly wider than your head, and leave them that way whenever you're not using them.

 

I'd be wary of non-AKG pads as they won't have the angle mounts, which is really the advantage of the K7-- over its competitors.

 

[ginetto61]

Originally Posted by ProtegeManiac /img/forum/go_quote.gif
In bot hcases they basically mimic the relative position of the drivers to the ear canal.
Red line is typical headphone position, boxes are what they would amount to if they were speakers, something you don't do.
The black lines (K7--, HD700, HD800, T1, Qualia, etc) simulate the front and toe-in position of speakers.
Except while this minimizes the "trident tips" soundstage it can't do the physically impossible task of making them sound completely outside of your head.

 
Hi ! thanks a lot for the very valuable reply.
So "angling" the drivers is a very good design choice indeed because gives a result more similar to loudspeaker 

Still i think that the very big challenge with HPs is the "filling" of the front.  That day HPs will take over loudspeakers ... i am sure of this.
 

If you wear the earpads they'll soften up over time, however because of the self-adjusting AKG headband that ensures a relatively light clamping force that you can't customize unless your head is too big, it's going to take a lot longer.

Try putting the K701's on a row of books that are slightly wider than your head, and leave them that way whenever you're not using them.

 
Thanks a lot for the very helpful advice.  I will leave them clamping a box when i do not use them

 

I'd be wary of non-AKG pads as they won't have the angle mounts, which is really the advantage of the K7-- over its competitors.

 
Thanks a lot again because i had the feeling that the earcushions were integral part on the nice soundstage rendition of these nice HPs and now i am sure of this.
All considered i like these k701 a lot indeed.   They can be found used for a nice price.  Maybe i will buy another pair.
In particular i like the sense of space in the sound.
The in the head sensation sometimes can get very stressing and i use the HPs for hours because i listen late in the evening when all other people are sleeping.
 
As a curiosity i wonder which other HPs outperform the k701 in this sensation of out of the head sound.
Really curious.   I read people praising the hd800 ... but they are too expensive for me

Kind regards, gino 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginetto61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Hi ! thanks a lot for the very valuable reply.

So "angling" the drivers is a very good design choice indeed because gives a result more similar to loudspeaker 

Still i think that the very big challenge with HPs is the "filling" of the front.  That day HPs will take over loudspeakers ... i am sure of this.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "filling" the front, but if you mean that there's a strong L-C-R presentation but weak between L-C and C-R issue, that is primarily caused by how your left ear can't hear the right headphone driver and vice versa. Having the drivers smack on top of the ear canal has a little effect on it too, so angled headphones at the very least just won't have the extreme left and right very loud and very close to the ears.

 

There's also a thing called Crossfeed, which can be implemented in software or hardware, which is basically controlled crosstalk. Whereas crosstalk is a full-range lack of isolation on both channels and is a flaw in any circuit design, Crossfeed applies a filter, above which the frequencies get fed across to the other channel at a given level. Meier Corda DACs and amplifiers have this feature, and variable settings (other than on or off) on products like the DACcord; and software application such as in Neutron Music Player just have more flexibility in the settings. Note that if you go too far it really narrows down the soundstage, which is easy to do on Neutron's variable settings.

 

More on Crossfeed from Meier Audio: http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/crossfeed.htm

 

 
 
 
 

 
As a curiosity i wonder which other HPs outperform the k701 in this sensation of out of the head sound.
Really curious.   I read people praising the hd800 ... but they are too expensive for me 

 
I don't think there are even any headphones with angled drivers/earpads near the K7--'s price point other than the MDR-1_ from Sony, but those are a completely different design: closed back, compact portable.

 

[ginetto61]

Originally Posted by ProtegeManiac /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
I'm not sure what you mean by "filling" the front, but if you mean that there's a strong L-C-R presentation but weak between L-C and C-R issue, that is primarily caused by how your left ear can't hear the right headphone driver and vice versa.
Having the drivers smack on top of the ear canal has a little effect on it too, so angled headphones at the very least just won't have the extreme left and right very loud and very close to the ears.

 
Hi and thanks again for the valuable advice.  Yes this is what i had in mind.
I was noticing that even with binaural recordings like the ones on youtube when the speaker talks from the front the sensation is confusing.
Instead when he moves on the sides the effect is perfectly natural.
 

There's also a thing called Crossfeed, which can be implemented in software or hardware, which is basically controlled crosstalk. Whereas crosstalk is a full-range lack of isolation on both channels and is a flaw in any circuit design, Crossfeed applies a filter, above which the frequencies get fed across to the other channel at a given level. Meier Corda DACs and amplifiers have this feature, and variable settings (other than on or off) on products like the DACcord; and software application such as in Neutron Music Player just have more flexibility in the settings. Note that if you go too far it really narrows down the soundstage, which is easy to do on Neutron's variable settings.

More on Crossfeed from Meier Audio: http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/crossfeed.htm  

 
Yes i read something about this and i understand that some kind of processing could be very beneficial.
I am always fighting with the listening fatigue ... i usually listen for hours
 

I don't think there are even any headphones with angled drivers/earpads near the K7--'s price point other than the MDR-1_ from Sony, but those are a completely different design: closed back, compact portable.

Thanks again for the very helpful advice.  I think i will stick with the k701 for a while.   I have some amps to try with them.
Already with the little Magni 2 the effect is quite pleasant.  I am impressed by this little amp.
I see a Uber version in the market.  I am not sure how much the Uber is superior to the plain version.
I will read about it.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,  gino

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginetto61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Hi and thanks again for the valuable advice.  Yes this is what i had in mind.

I was noticing that even with binaural recordings like the ones on youtube when the speaker talks from the front the sensation is confusing.

Instead when he moves on the sides the effect is perfectly natural.

 

Not really "front," more like "forehead" - typical headphone has the vocals completely inside the head, some headphones place them just outside the forehead. There's no way around that except a K1000 since driver distance limits where the vocals can be. All driver angling and binaural can do really is just make everything else go on a more natural position relative and proportional to the where the vocals are.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginetto61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Yes i read something about this and i understand that some kind of processing could be very beneficial.

I am always fighting with the listening fatigue ... i usually listen for hours

 

If you listen for hours I'd be more worried about the loudness and the fact that you listen for hours rather than the imaging as the cause/s of fatigue. There's only a given amount of time that a human on average can tolerate loud sound, and that gets shorter the louder you go. A closed headphone with more isolation, and then everything else is Crossfeed, can probably help a lot for your use.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginetto61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

Thanks again for the very helpful advice.  I think i will stick with the k701 for a while.   I have some amps to try with them.

Already with the little Magni 2 the effect is quite pleasant.  I am impressed by this little amp.

I see a Uber version in the market.  I am not sure how much the Uber is superior to the plain version.

I will read about it.

 

 

If you have the dough, I'd go with something like the Meier Jazz instead of trying out several cheaper amps.

 

[ginetto61]

Originally Posted by ProtegeManiac /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Not really "front," more like "forehead" - typical headphone has the vocals completely inside the head, some headphones place them just outside the forehead.
There's no way around that except a K1000 since driver distance limits where the vocals can be.
All driver angling and binaural can do really is just make everything else go on a more natural position relative and proportional to the where the vocals are.

 
Hi ! and thanks again.  The sound inside the head feeling is what annoys me.
But i have to say that these k701 tend to place it quite outside. They sound "spacious" enough for me at this point.
Before deciding for a major investment i have to learn more and read more.
I love the hd800 for instance ... very much.
 

If you listen for hours I'd be more worried about the loudness and the fact that you listen for hours rather than the imaging as the cause/s of fatigue.

There's only a given amount of time that a human on average can tolerate loud sound, and that gets shorter the louder you go.

Advice taken ! thank you !

A closed headphone with more isolation, and then everything else is Crossfeed, can probably help a lot for your use.

this i do not understand.  Do you mean that a closed HP can give a better soundstage ?
however i will read again about crossfeed techniques ... i read of a unit quite expensive and complex.  I hate complexity.
 
Quote:

If you have the dough, I'd go with something like the Meier Jazz instead of trying out several cheaper amps.

i will read about it.  But I have to read and learn and think a little before diving in a new investment.
the money involved can be very high.  i would love a very good performance by the way.
For now my ideal HP could be a hd800 rightly driven.  And giving up to the idea of the crossfeed.
I start saving money.
Thanks again,  gino

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginetto61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

this i do not understand.  Do you mean that a closed HP can give a better soundstage ?

however i will read again about crossfeed techniques ... i read of a unit quite expensive and complex.  I hate complexity.

 

No, not overall. What I mean is that the fatigue you are experiencing may be partially if not greatly due to how loud you are listening, and the reality is that even at night when you cannot tell any specific source of noise, the ambient noise can still be surprisingly high overall. With my windows open here the ambient noise levels can be as loud as just having my 1.0HP airconditioner working at low fan speed. A closed headphone will then allow you to listen at lower output levels.

 

And then regarding the contributions to that due to the soundstage, since most closed headphones may not have the same angle mounts as the T5P for example (or too small around the ears  that it doesn't effectively make for such an effect due to lack of spacing from the ear, as on the MDR-1x), then the only way to deal with the confusing "you pissed off Neptune" soundstage (strone L-C-R with weak spots feels like staring down the business end of a trident) is to use Crossfeed. The reality however is that Crossfeed doesn't make the soundstage wider - it can only place the other instruments in believable, proportional locations relative to where the vocals are, which will remain static since it's playing from both channels anyway. If anything, it helps make the soundstage deeper.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginetto61 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 

i will read about it.  But I have to read and learn and think a little before diving in a new investment.

the money involved can be very high.  i would love a very good performance by the way.

For now my ideal HP could be a hd800 rightly driven.  And giving up to the idea of the crossfeed.

I start saving money.

Thanks again,  gino

 

Exactly why I'm saying skip all the other amps and save up for the Jazz. Even when you upgrade to the HD800 that amp can do a wonderful job of driving it without noise and distortion, much less clipping. I have its predecessor, the Cantate.2, which among other things doesn't even have the much more precise and quieter volume control as on the current generation of Meier amps, and yet the only headphone I didn't like driven by it was the Beyer T1. It was struggling with such a stiff load with moderate noise levels in a meet here, and given how I can hear distortion at the levels needed to get over that noise, I'd say the load is just too stiff. By comparison I can set the HD800 (and my HD600) on a table and use it as omnidirectional speakers and they aren't distorting with the Cantate, not even any hint of overexcursion due to bass playing house (not that I played really bassy techno on it, but it handled Late Night Alumni well - a BT speaker only beat it in bass output).

 

And no need to give up Crossfeed on the Jazz also. It has a built-in filter and you can always just disable it if you don't like it.

 

[ginetto61]

Originally Posted by ProtegeManiac /img/forum/go_quote.gif
No, not overall.
What I mean is that the fatigue you are experiencing may be partially if not greatly due to how loud you are listening, and the reality is that even at night when you cannot tell any specific source of noise, the ambient noise can still be surprisingly high overall.
With my windows open here the ambient noise levels can be as loud as just having my 1.0HP airconditioner working at low fan speed.
A closed headphone will then allow you to listen at lower output levels.

 
Hi and thanks for the explanation.  I am quite lucky here ... no ambient noise to speak of after 10 pm
however i am noticing that after 10 pm the sound is better ... maybe is due to less noise in the mains i do not know.  But the sound is clearly better.
I should try some mains filter or similar device
 

And then regarding the contributions to that due to the soundstage, since most closed headphones may not have the same angle mounts as the T5P for example (or too small around the ears that it doesn't effectively make for such an effect due to lack of spacing from the ear, as on the MDR-1x), then the only way to deal with the confusing "you pissed off Neptune" soundstage (strone L-C-R with weak spots feels like staring down the business end of a trident) is to use Crossfeed.

The reality however is that Crossfeed doesn't make the soundstage wider - it can only place the other instruments in believable, proportional locations relative to where the vocals are, which will remain static since it's playing from both channels anyway. If anything, it helps make the soundstage deeper.  

 
i have the feeling that the Crossfeed can be a good thing indeed but i am worried by the added complexity.   I guess that Crossfeed is not so common among listeners.
But the result now with the k701 is acceptable ... even for long term listening.
 

Exactly why I'm saying skip all the other amps and save up for the Jazz.

Even when you upgrade to the HD800 that amp can do a wonderful job of driving it without noise and distortion, much less clipping.

I have its predecessor, the Cantate.2, which among other things doesn't even have the much more precise and quieter volume control as on the current generation of Meier amps,

and yet the only headphone I didn't like driven by it was the Beyer T1.

It was struggling with such a stiff load with moderate noise levels in a meet here, and given how I can hear distortion at the levels needed to get over that noise, I'd say the load is just too stiff.

By comparison I can set the HD800 (and my HD600) on a table and use it as omnidirectional speakers and they aren't distorting with the Cantate,

not even any hint of overexcursion due to bass playing house (not that I played really bassy techno on it, but it handled Late Night Alumni well - a BT speaker only beat it in bass output).

And no need to give up Crossfeed on the Jazz also.

It has a built-in filter and you can always just disable it if you don't like it.  

 
So a very very good amp indeed. 
 
http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/jazz.htm
 
http://www.head-fi.org/products/meier-audio-corda-jazz
 
i will look for it for sure. 
Thanks again,  gino