[gerG]

When I first posted this, my intent was to point out a potential compromise inherent in this type of design. I chose my words poorly, and I am sorry for being so blunt. I still want to get the idea across, so that other owners can get the full potential from their headphones. I will try again:

Tensioned headbands seem a tricky thing to balance. The problem is that they will stretch until they develop sufficient tension to counter gravity, i.e. support the weight of the headphone. Unfortunately this static balance has no real dependance on the location of your ears. That means that a user will position the headphones to be comfortable and sound right, then the headband might either pull upward, or sag downward (or they might be just right, as long as the bands don't relax) depending on the pre-tension and spring rate. Sony, Sen, and Beyer avoid this by using fixed position designs lately. In the K271, AKG has an extra complication with a tensioned design connected to an earcup with a bearing point relatively far outboard. That means a small amount of tug by the headband will create sufficient torque to tilt the earcup, especially with grippy earpads.

ok, so I told you that to tell you this. If your K271 seem to have weak bass, push in on the bottom of the cups to make sure that they did not break the seal. Squeezing the little knobs together on the headband, whilst wearing the headphones, will relax the headband and allow the cups to seat properly.

My preferred fix would be to lock the headband in place for each specific user. I haven't decided how to do that yet.

As always, I appologize if this is old news. I hadn't read about it, so I decided to post.


gerG

update Oct 30: I swapped to a pair of well worn Beyer DT831 pads, and locked the headband in place (zip ties for now). Huge diference in fit, comfort, stability, and sound. The last one was a surprise. The beyer pads seem to absorb internal reflections much better, and these old ones let the drivers fit closer to my ears. Very nice, even with glasses. These are going to work with me tomorrow. I will test frequency response some time this week. I like to listen for awhile first.

 

[xxlMusikfreak]

No problem here - my ears must be in the right position for the AKG phones. I've got seal and my ears right in the middle. Even when walking around. Just running (after the bus) doesn't work...

 

[blomquist]

every akg i have (ok, you might claim that I only have akg's..) sits just perfectly... If it doesn't work for you it's ok, but the tension headband works for a great many people just perfectly.

 

[SaturnNyne]

I'm with the other repliers, no problems with my AKGs. I can adjust the cups vertically to any position I like and they'll stay there. The only exception is the K400, which I got well-used with stretched out elastics, it simply required some ribbon threaded through its adjustment mechanism to add friction and lock it in place (something similar might work for you).

I think this is only a problem for people whose heads are too small for the headphones to develop proper clamping force on, though I don't see how that could be in your case since the K271 is very tight compared to the open AKGs.

 

[gerG]

It makes sense that they work at least ok for most people. AKG must have targeted the norm. otoh my K271 are tensionsed so tightly that they will not even budge if I hang them from my finger by the headband. Too much pre-tension. With such short bands, the force goes up quickly from there.

I didn't notice this on my K501s, or my K1000s. My K340 were the opposite, drooping down and opening at the top. All of my ATs have been too loose, so they just keep sagging.

The thing about the K271 that makes this particularly troublesome are the grippy vinyl pads, and the fact that they are so sensitive to a perfect seal. Within my own experience space, only the HD280 have been this sensitive to the seal.

I did latch the band in place, and everything got nice. Easy to fix.

I haven't tried yet, but do Beyer pads fit these? I have some spare DT931 pads around, so I may give it a try tomorrow.

fwiw, I like the sound of these cans. They are worth tweaking. That damned switch is high on the list of things to fix. Probably great for the studio, but a nuisance for home use, and certainly a source of sound degradation.


gerG

 

[K271 Guy]

lord of the instruments 3

 

[gerG]

Not too far off topic, since I started out with a design issue.

I will not fault the durability of the 271. They have amazing flexibility, which keeps them from breaking, or even yielding. I get the impression that they were designed to be passed around from one listener to another, with occasional drops on the counter. They even exhibit a certain level of resistance to fluid spills, although I will not intentionally test this aspect. Ruggedness was high on the criteria list, I think.

gerG

edit: more than once I have caught a wire of my Etys on something at the gym as I was headed from one contraption to another. Nothing like getting stopped in your tracks by an anchor attached to your ear canal!

 

[gerG]

Updated original post. Beyer pads fit great, and are highly recommended.

gerG

 

[imported_pete_d]

Do you find the Beyer pads completely recess the mids and give a nasty hollow phasing issue? I bought a pair and don't use them. To be honest, i think the k271's sound the best without pads at all. Must be a proximity thing...

 

[MikeAKGGuy]

Just so that everyone knows - you can say that I'm biased, but I've been biased for decades longer than I've been an AKG employee.

To be fair, no headphone made will fit everyone's head and ears perfectly. And how a headphone fits your head and and couples with your ears is a matter of personal opinion.

However, the fact that AKG has been using its patented headband design for nearly 30 years and literally millions of people have bought and use these products is testament to the fact that the design is "sound".

If you don't like the AKG design or it doesn't work with the vagaries of your head and ears, so be it. But that doesn't mean the design is flawed. A lot of people find AKG to be the most comfortable headphone on the market. AKG is the most widely-used headphone in recording and broadcast studios - people who's livelihood is dependent on how they sound and what they hear trust AKG more than other brands, and those same pro users frequently have to wear their headphones for hours at a time.

For me and for lots of other listeners, the AKG headband design delivers automatic comfortable fit. The headband does what it's supposed to do--it takes the weight of the headphone off my ears and puts it on top of my head. The ear cups are gimbal-suspended so they can rotate horizontally or vertically to conform to the orientation of my ears.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I believe all you can say with any degree of truth is whether a design parameter works for you and whether you like it.

 

[gerG]

Hi Mike, and thanks for the honest opinion. I don't mean to bash AKG. After all, they make the best headphone that I have ever heard (K1000).

I can say that this particular headphone that I am wearing will not fit my head. I doubt that they would work very well on anyone elses head. When the pre-tension is higher than the weight of the headphone, as soon as the band is off the stops it will act to pull the headphones back up. If the pads are grippy, they will resist sliding upward. The only way for the force to balance is for the cups to rotate about the sticking point. The outboard gymbal mount facilitates this by providing a lever arm. That tips the cups upward, and kills the bass.

The main problem is that the pre-tension is just too high on this particular pair of cans. If it were lower they would fit fine and I never would have noticed. For now the locked in place approach makes these the most comfortable AKGs that I have worn to date. The Beyer pads really help as well.

I am going to reword my original post. Pre-tensioned designs can work fine, if the initial settings are right. For my own head I get better comfort and stability with a locked design. It would be splendid if AKG could add a friction knob to lock the headband in place. The best of both worlds.


gerG

 

[NeilPeart]

This is semi-off-topic, but can you please provide more details regarding the pad conversion. The K 271S was always my favorite sealed 'phone (with the DT 250-250 on its tail), but I prefer the velour earpads of the DT 770/880/990 over the K 240/271 pleather. Such a mod would enable me to use the K 271S without any more comfort issues.

 

[imported_pete_d]

The velour pads will fit on both the k240's and the k271's. I bought them when I had my k240's and sold them for the k271's. From memory they seem to go on the k240's more easily, which leads me to think that the cup diameter is smaller on the semi-open AKG's.

Putting them on basically involves hooking the vinyl ring on the outside of the pad around the cup of the headphones. They are slightly smaller so it takes a fe minutes to get them on, but it does work after sufficient stretching and tugging.

Sonically, I FAR prefer the stock AKG's, even though i sweat profusely in them, the Beyers are far deeper and so give off a slight resonance/phasing issue like listening through a pipe/tube. It provides more bass but at the expense of the charming mids that the AKG's have. It can be reduced somewhat by removing the sponge in front of the driver, but I'd personally prefer sufferent the heat of the stock units.

JMHO

 

[MikeAKGGuy]

NealPeart - you can get cushy velour ear pads for the AKG K271 and K 171 Studio.

For the K271 Studio, the part number is ECV 271 (item number 2955Z2601). The price will be somewhere in the vicinity of $16 a pair. This is a new item and not in stock yet, but should be available shortly. You can contact AKG's parts lady Pat Burns at 615-620-3832 or pburns@harman.com.

 

[ReDVsion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPeart This is semi-off-topic, but can you please provide more details regarding the pad conversion. The K 271S was always my favorite sealed 'phone (with the DT 250-250 on its tail), but I prefer the velour earpads of the DT 770/880/990 over the K 240/271 pleather. Such a mod would enable me to use the K 271S without any more comfort issues.

IME, using beyer velour pads on AKGs causes them to be overly bright and harsh, with significantly less bass. It *almost* works for the K240S, as the bass is pretty hyped anyway, but the harshness (to my ears) was too much to tolerate, and the mids lose that special AKG quality.