[regal]

I have a pair of AKG 501's. With most recordings they are great but there are a few recording where the guitars/vocals have a distance to them. I don't have any other quality phones to compare but others who listen to the same recording do not notice this distance, also my speaker rig doesn't have it. It seams worse when the instument is mixed dead center.

Anyone else notice this?

 

[PiccoloNamek]

I noticed a lot of things that were wrong with the K501s, but I can't say I noticed that particular problem. It probably has something to do with the large soundstage of the K501s.

 

[feh1325]

yes, the 501 sound very distant compared to my hd580 and especially my ms2.
but i love them for their comfort.

 

[Davesrose]

It's the large soundstage and recessed upperbass. I've never been an AKG fan because of this. Good warm amping should help. Get the warmest tube you can find!

 

[regal]

I think I'm going to try a different headphone. I love the AKG midrange so I might try the closed AKG 271's. I would imagine a closed phone would bring the instruments closer ?

 

[Davesrose]

Well I haven't heard the k601 or k701, but they're supposed to have less soundstage and more mid bass. Since the k501 is sounding distant for you, I think your setup can synergize with the Senn HD595. It'll get you closer and more into the music, without it being so in your head like a Grado. To my ears, Beyers and ATs seems more recessed in the upper mids...so I'd consider those brands last.

 

[mypasswordis]

Before you get another pair of headphones, try flattening the pads a bit first. The artificial distance may in fact be because the drivers are too far away from your ears.

 

[SeagramSeven]

Artificial distance?

That really does not make any sense at all. In order for some distance X to be artificial, some other distance Y must be natural else there is no way to differentiate the two.

If I listen to a performance of a symphony while sitting in the orchestra pit, is that natural distance? What about the front row? 10th row? 50th row? 1st balcony? Second? Third? Left side? Center? Right side?

What is "natural distance"? If we cannot answer this, we have no reference point to declare something artificial !

The only possible conclusion is "there is no natural distance", only distances you prefer for personal and subjective reasons.

Davesrose for example explicitly prefers the perceived "distance" of Sennheisers in general. This doesn't mean you will or wont however. If you want to give Senns a try, I would recommend getting the 555($95) or 580($125). (amazon prices)

In one of your previous posts Davesrose, you suggested that "AKG's need a warm source where Sennheisers need an accurate source".

The opposite of "accurate" would be "inaccurate", and when you translate "inaccurate" to the audio domain, "innaccurate" = "distortion".

Distortion changes our perception of the sound.

When people say they want a "warm" source, what they are really saying is they want a source that changes how the signal sounds.

You are quite vocal in your sennheiser preference, so when auditioning an AKG for example, you are consciously or subconsciously comparing it to the sound you prefer, and realizing that it is different (which it's meant to be), decide "it's missing something". And so, perhaps a "more distorted" source may change it in a way you prefer.

My amp of choice for my K501's (Headamp GilmoreLite) is about the polar-opposite of "warm & distorted". It is what an amplifier should be---a device to add gain to a signal---nothing more. I much prefer this over other tube offerings I auditioned. The whole point here is if you dislike the sound of a headphone, and you are hoping that adding distortion to your source will make it sound better---your priorities are reversed. Keep your source accurate and find a phone you like.

This forum would be alot more helpful if people posted a bit more information in both their questions and answers, as opposed to simply saying "I like X because it's present where Y sounds recessed". Short sound clips(even 10 seconds), and descriptions of your experience with them on your setup would go a long way to accomplishing this.

 

[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I'm going to try a different headphone. I love the AKG midrange so I might try the closed AKG 271's. I would imagine a closed phone would bring the instruments closer ?

Yeah, it would definitely do that but then switching to another open headphones would probably bring them closer as well.

Have you tried blocking the vents under the earpads or any other mod? There are ways to bring the intruments closer.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeagramSeven /img/forum/go_quote.gif Artificial distance?

I guess we can make the claim that a lot of audiophile headphones have "artificial distance". We've even made a term for it, "headstage". A percieved false soundstage because there really isn't much space between source and ears. Grados are the only headphones that don't have an artificial distance, could be one arguement. Now yes, I have been vocal about my natural tendancies towards Sennheisers......but everyone says that the k501 has the largest soundstage, and lack of bass is always the complaint as well. Many people want tonal neutrality: so that's why the whole system is important. Source plays a large emphasis on amp which plays a large emphasis on headphone. If you want to keep the headphone, but are not totally happy with its sound, then you have to change something else down the chain.

 

[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif To my ears, Beyers and ATs seems more recessed in the upper mids...so I'd consider those brands last.

The HD202 is recessed in the upper mids too so I think you should avoid Sennheisers as well. No, I couldn't think of an appropriate smily.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFat /img/forum/go_quote.gif The HD202 is recessed in the upper mids too so I think you should avoid Sennheisers as well. No, I couldn't think of an appropriate smily.

OK, avoid the AT A900 and W5000, and Beyer DT770/80 and DT801 to be specific

 

[HFat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeagramSeven /img/forum/go_quote.gif Short sound clips(even 10 seconds), and descriptions of your experience with them on your setup would go a long way to accomplishing this.

10 sec. soundclips aren't music so that wouldn't work for me. I need more time experience the music and in most genres it takes a lot longer to "develop a theme" (I hope that phrase in intelligible) anyway.

On the other hand, it would be nice if people used more free music in their reviews.

 

[mypasswordis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Grados are the only headphones that don't have an artificial distance, could be one arguement.

Actually, Grados with flats may be what you're talking about, because the drivers are actually right next to the person's ears. People say bowls add some sort of soundstage because they add distance from the drivers to the ears, much like most other headphones' earpads.

I think I somewhat know what the OP is talking about, and I do think bringing the drivers closer in will help. There's a certain thinness of sound that some call analytical or cold, which the OP may say as having an "artifical distance." Sometimes some of the resonance and timbre cannot be heard, as if one is listening from far away.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HFat /img/forum/go_quote.gif 10 sec. soundclips aren't music so that wouldn't work for me. I need more time experience the music and in most genres it takes a lot longer to "develop a theme" (I hope that phrase in intelligible) anyway. On the other hand, it would be nice if people used more free music in their reviews.

I also think it's rather pointless too because everyone's setup is different. I know a sound clip sounds completely different on my DAC1 vs my DAP. Whenever I've tried to make a decision on headphones, I've asked specific questions. And when reading reviews, tried to guage how the reviewer's setup was like mine. I'll try to use their objective observations if I know they have similar preferences or gear.