[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Hey Beagle, Which of your amps do you find powers them best ? I noticed on my zotl that I have to turn the volume twice as high for them as I do for my SR325's. I haven't had a chance to give the 501's a real audition yet.

The only amp I have that powers the 501 to deafening levels is my Luxman intergated amp. But the sound off that headphone jack is not great.

I listen to the 501 through either a Grado RA-1 or X-Cans. I listen at about a 10 o'clock position, which is a low to moderate volume level. For comparisons sake, using Grado phones, I would have the RA-1 volume around 7 o'clock.

But with the 501, I don't go for volume. At this listening level I get all the dynamics and detail so I have no need to push it further. The levels are realistic for me. I feel like I'm sitting towards the rear of a concert hall. So in this respect, it suits my needs, but others wanting more gain might want something else.

 

[kwkarth]

Although the Creek OBH-11SE did a reasonable job of powering the 501's, both they and the HD-580/600's entered a new realm when I powered them with the SAC K1000 and the HR Max. I'm not talking about volume here, I'm talking about the quality of the sound.

 

[lee.watkins]

Okay I can't compare directly since I don't have those exact models, but I can come pretty close. I have some Grado SR-80's that I swear by, and my friend has some AKG k401's that he swears by. The detail is there on way or the other, but it really depends if you want the music to hit your ears like a whip or a brease. I think it's more a question of quality than character.

None of these cans work well with a tube amp. Better go with a HR Max or a Corda HA-1.

 

[Dave]

Quote:

Although the Creek OBH-11SE did a reasonable job of powering the 501's, both they and the HD-580/600's entered a new realm when I powered them with the SAC K1000 and the HR Max. I'm not talking about volume here, I'm talking about the quality of the sound.

I find this interesting becase it seemed to me that with the more power hungry phones certain elements in a recording drop back and are too far away while others stay right "upfront". This oddly exaggerated depth of soundstage was one of the reasons the zotl/hd600 didn't work for me though I understand it's a popular combo with many here. Some recordings I was very familiar with sounded like part of the band was on stage while a few members were playing in the lobby. Perhaps my reservations about the Sennhiesers would diminish with more power and/or something solid state. Maybe more power is what it'd take to fulfill their potential and that of the 501's as well.

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave I find this interesting becase it seemed to me that with the more power hungry phones certain elements in a recording drop back and are too far away while others stay right "upfront". This oddly exaggerated depth of soundstage was one of the reasons the zotl/hd600 didn't work for me though I understand it's a popular combo with many here. Some recordings I was very familiar with sounded like part of the band was on stage while a few members were playing in the lobby. Perhaps my reservations about the Sennhiesers would diminish with more power and/or something solid state. Maybe more power is what it'd take to fulfill their potential and that of the 501's as well.

This would be true if it were ONLY the soundstage that improved with more power on the HD600. That's not the case, though. Virtually everything seems to improve in the HD600 with more power. And the Max is not enough, I say. From what I've read about the ZOTL, it doesn't have enough, either. The RKV was the best I'd heard the HD600 but I had the impression it had more to go.

I wonder/hope the K501 is in the same boat. I didn't find the K501 to be worthwhile at all even with the Max. I'd be eager to hear them on an RKV.

I don't mean to badmouth the Max so much. I think the 931 and Etymotic do well with the Max. I just think the HD600 has special needs.

 

[Dave]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelly I don't mean to badmouth the Max so much. I think the 931 and Etymotic do well with the Max. I just think the HD600 has special needs.

When I first got my HD600's, I had a Maxed out Home, which is pretty close to the Max, and the Zotl to compare. I felt they were astonishingly similar though the Zotl had a bit of sweetness and fullness with female voices etc. I never got the impression that the MOH had that much more power than the Zotl at least in regard to driving the Senn's. I'd sure like to hear the HD600's when their "special needs" were being met ! I found the Senn's a bit anticlimactic with both amps, although at the time I had a DVD player that was a poor source. I'm intrigued by what I've been reading about the Sugden Headmaster and the ease with which it drives the power hungry phones.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly This would be true if it were ONLY the soundstage that improved with more power on the HD600. That's not the case, though. Virtually everything seems to improve in the HD600 with more power. And the Max is not enough, I say. From what I've read about the ZOTL, it doesn't have enough, either. The RKV was the best I'd heard the HD600 but I had the impression it had more to go. I wonder/hope the K501 is in the same boat. I didn't find the K501 to be worthwhile at all even with the Max. I'd be eager to hear them on an RKV. I don't mean to badmouth the Max so much. I think the 931 and Etymotic do well with the Max. I just think the HD600 has special needs.

Well, since I haven't heard the RKV yet, I guess I can't comment on your observations, other than the pose the question; "Assuming that HR had any means at their disposal, if the HD600’s had benefited from more power than even the Max would provide, why wouldn’t they have designed it to produce more power?”

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly Virtually everything seems to improve in the HD600 with more power. And the Max is not enough, I say.... I don't mean to badmouth the Max so much. I think the 931 and Etymotic do well with the Max. I just think the HD600 has special needs.

That doesn't seem to make much sense, Kelly. The HD600 is HeadRoom's favorite headphone, and the Max is their top of the line (BlockHead aside). Why would they skimp on the power? The Max is plenty powerful enough for the HD600 -- and this is coming from someone who feels that the more power the better for the HD600.

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF That doesn't seem to make much sense, Kelly. The HD600 is HeadRoom's favorite headphone, and the Max is their top of the line (BlockHead aside). Why would they skimp on the power? The Max is plenty powerful enough for the HD600 -- and this is coming from someone who feels that the more power the better for the HD600.

MacDEF, I realize that Headroom touts the pairing of the HD600 and the Max. I'm sure they appreciate your undying support.

I'm not suggesting that the power supply on the Max is lacking but somehow the larger tube amps seem to put out more usable power. The Max is known for having an excellent power supply.

To be sure, though, the HD600 has greater potential than the Max can fulfill. While I suggested the RKV did quite a bit better, I'd be willing to bet that there's even more to be had from the larger amps. It's been said that the Cary SEI and HD600 are an awesome pairing. I'm sure it's not a fluke.

While you're certainly welcomed to your own opinion on the matter, I wonder if you've heard the HD600 with any of the other amps that I hypothesize do a better job powering them. If not, maybe you could find access to one to compare? If my RKV is ever working again and I hit 1000 posts, I plan to get a loaner MOH to get some more long term impressions of it and try it with whatever system I've managed to muster by then.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly MacDEF, I realize that Headroom touts the pairing of the HD600 and the Max. I'm sure they appreciate your undying support.

LOL, the Max gets my support because it's earned it (and I think every Max 2001 owner here feels the same).

Quote:

I'm not suggesting that the power supply on the Max is lacking but somehow the larger tube amps seem to put out more usable power.... To be sure, though, the HD600 has greater potential than the Max can fulfill.

I don't think "to be sure" is the right way to put it

Quote:

While I suggested the RKV did quite a bit better, I'd be willing to bet that there's even more to be had from the larger amps. It's been said that the Cary SEI and HD600 are an awesome pairing. I'm sure it's not a fluke.

But I've also seen people (even here on Head-Fi) that didn't like the Cary SEI better.

BTW, how much power does the RKV put out? I'd be curious to see 1) how their average power output compares; and 2) how their peak power output compares. Tube amps aren't known for their headroom... (no pun intended), which is why I question your hypothesis.

No, I don't have access to an RKV, much less a working one

Hopefully there'll be a Cary at the HeadRoom meet.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF BTW, how much power does the RKV put out?

Only 3 Watts per channel with a 200 ohm load, according to this page, no idea about it's peak output, but I do know that the PCL805 tubes were chosen because of their power handling capabilities. I think they're high current or something. They handle low impedance phones, they just hiss too much with them. They don't break or anything (or at least, not with as little as I've used them).

 

[kelly]

According to AudioValve, the RKV supports impedances of 200-1000ohms. (They reitterated this when I emailed them.) I believe they sell a transformer for lower impedanced headphones that is not unlike the other boxes other companies sell. I'm not sure whether this is worth it or not. The RKV had a high noise floor with the 40ohm W2002 but it was not unbearable. I was told upgrading the capacitors would help lower the noise floor and I'm convinced using cleaner power would too.

Incidentally, I don't know that the RKV deserves its soiled reputation for reliability. Tube amps in generally are more trouble than solid states but if it is, as we suspect, the power supply that's shot in my amp, it is probably, as I suspect, due to a voltage spike. My luck in general and my apartment in specific has had this problem with lots of other devices, most of them solid state.

I offer this challenge. If anyone would like to wager, he or she may loan me his or her respective Max 2001 and I'll use it in my environment. If I can't break it through normal use, we'll agree that the RKV is unreliable.

Someone once recommended some affordable Monster power filters/surge suppressors that allegedly actually do something. If anyone has that information about where to acquire those cheaply, let me know. Jude has me sold on the BP-3, but I won't be able to budget that for the forseeable future.