[vic1890]

Hi guys,

I use my macbook's optical out to my dac, I tried using the AE as well, but I found, after many times AB-ing that the optical out on the macbook sounds fuller, while the AE sounds a little, thin.

And I connect a short ethernet wire to the AE to transfer digital music to it, rather than relying on its wireless. The reason I do this is, plugging my VdH optical cable into the macbook seems to be a dangerous venture - it broke, the second time (by virtue of my laptop slipping and falling on the ground, the first was thanks to my gf) - now, these cables are expensive, they cost as much as the AE by themselves.

By plugging it into the AE, I get to just leave it there for good without any risk of breakage - but this reduced sound quality is bugging me.

Shouldn't it be the same? - but are bit perfect anyway - I can't comprehend why there should be a difference in quality.

Any knowledge on this guys?

also, apart from the Trends, any other converters out there that are higher in quality than it ?

 

[mark_h]

I have never been able to get AE to function properly? There are dropouts very regularly where it looses the lock? I just use the optical out form my macbook now after weeks of trying to solve the issue.

 

[vic1890]

Ah yes - that happens to me a lot, hence why I connect a cable directly to it, so that the data its streamed through that, rather than wireless (beats the point of the AE then though - but I use it, as you can see, for a whole different purpose)

 

[iamoneagain]

The AE could have more jitter causing a difference in sound. I believe they tested pretty low but the jitter fanatics said it's not low enough. Not sure how it compares to the Mac's output.

Also, not sure if it really effects the sounds but Mac's output can be set at 24 bit. For some reason with my dac, it seems to open the sound up. Might be my imagination. It also seems to end back at 24 bit by default even if I set it back at 16 bit. You can also set the Mac to upsample to 96Khz. I personally think it makes things worse with my setup.

I used to have problem with the airport express with dropouts. I now upgraded my router to the new dual band Airport Extreme and haven't noticed any problems. The express is still the old G model. I'd imagine the N model would improve things even more. I now only use the AE to stream music to some table top speakers in another room. I use the iMac directly to my headphone setup.

 

[vic1890]

iamonagain: that's what I was wondering - that mod sounds interesting, but if the mod, as Audio.E mods tend to seem, is going to cost far, far more than the device itself, I wouldn't think it worth it.

my dac is a NOS dac, so it wouldn't make sense to change the output - I tried though, and I didn't perceive any difference in sound quality. But yes, it defaults back to 24 bit - hehe so I sort of gave up on that.

 

[krmathis]

Its probably related to jitter.
I have not done any comparison myself, but most people seem to agree that the AirPort Express have quite a bit of jitter. The AirPort Express, as well as optical out on Mac's, have been proved to be bit-perfect, so I doubt that is the issue.

Regarding drop-outs, I get them from time to time when I max out my internet connection. But luckily its just a skip or two each day, so nothing that really annoy me.

 

[iamoneagain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic1890 /img/forum/go_quote.gif iamonagain: that's what I was wondering - that mod sounds interesting, but if the mod, as Audio.E mods tend to seem, is going to cost far, far more than the device itself, I wouldn't think it worth it. my dac is a NOS dac, so it wouldn't make sense to change the output - I tried though, and I didn't perceive any difference in sound quality. But yes, it defaults back to 24 bit - hehe so I sort of gave up on that.

I just check Empirical Audio's site and they no longer list their modded AE. I believe it was priced at $700. They have some very expensive PACE device you can use with the AE.

Not sure what your other options are. I supposed you could try an Apple TV. I have one better never tested it for audio. You can now use them without a tv since you can stream itunes to it just like you can AE. I believe you'd need to set it up with a TV once and then can place it anywhere. Also, the iphone remote works with it too. Oh, it has a standard optical output.

I guess a Squeezebox or Roku are some other options. Never used those so I can't help with that.

 

[vic1890]

'jitter' I hate that word! - its just something you know is there, but is so hard to rectify

 

[vic1890]

hehe yes - very expensive indeed - more than half of what my entire system costs!

I thought of the apple TV - I wonder how good it is in terms of jitter. I've heard of the squeezebox, but I'm not sure what the roku is - I shall check that out!

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamoneagain /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just check Empirical Audio's site and they no longer list their modded AE. I believe it was priced at $700. They have some very expensive PACE device you can use with the AE. Not sure what your other options are. I supposed you could try an Apple TV. I have one better never tested it for audio. You can now use them without a tv since you can stream itunes to it just like you can AE. I believe you'd need to set it up with a TV once and then can place it anywhere. Also, the iphone remote works with it too. Oh, it has a standard optical output. I guess a Squeezebox or Roku are some other options. Never used those so I can't help with that.

 

[iamoneagain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic1890 /img/forum/go_quote.gif hehe yes - very expensive indeed - more than half of what my entire system costs! I thought of the apple TV - I wonder how good it is in terms of jitter. I've heard of the squeezebox, but I'm not sure what the roku is - I shall check that out!

It's the Roku Soundbridge you need to look at. I was originally looking at Roku years ago even before Squeezebox was around. I have no idea how either compare to each other now. Seems Squeezebox was the one that took off. The Roku still looks nicer but I think the current Squeezebox has better specs.

The AE tested at 258ps jitter and the Squeezebox classic is listed 50ps. Not sure what this really means but lower is better. Does it make an audible difference, I'm not sure.

Here's the link to the AE test: http://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/505apple/

Here's another link showing highend CD players that have more jitter than the AE: http://www.stereophile.com/features/...er/index3.html

 

[AndrewZander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have never been able to get AE to function properly? There are dropouts very regularly where it looses the lock? I just use the optical out form my macbook now after weeks of trying to solve the issue.

I get dropouts when I try to stream lossless audio through my AE. When I stream 256k or less, I don't get dropouts.

Are you trying to stream lossless or other high bitrate audio?

 

[iamoneagain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewZander /img/forum/go_quote.gif I get dropouts when I try to stream lossless audio through my AE. When I stream 256k or less, I don't get dropouts. Are you trying to stream lossless or other high bitrate audio?

What's weird is everything is supposed to be converted to apple lossless before it streams to AE. If you have a good wireless connection, it should have no problem with lossless. I was even able to stream HD content over a "G" network to the apple tv without a problem. I still upgraded to the "N" router just avoid any issues.

 

[Oliver :)]

Dropouts are most likely a bandwidth related issue. Check how much is taken up by your internet connection and whether your network is *really* running on G or higher, not some B/G compatible thing. Also look for other B devices (say from Nintendo...) in the network. AirTunes is hopeless within a B network unless you have zero other activity. You can also look for other devices in the same spectrum (like cordless phones) that may impair your signal quality -> set the network to another channel.

If you think jitter is the issue, maybe try and pick up some vintage anti jitter device. I would much rather think that is has something to do with the output the Mac is set to in the Audio MIDI controls.

 

[iamoneagain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dropouts are most likely a bandwidth related issue. Check how much is taken up by your internet connection and whether your network is *really* running on G or higher, not some B/G compatible thing. Also look for other B devices (say from Nintendo...) in the network. AirTunes is hopeless within a B network unless you have zero other activity. You can also look for other devices in the same spectrum (like cordless phones) that may impair your signal quality -> set the network to another channel. If you think jitter is the issue, maybe try and pick up some vintage anti jitter device. I would much rather think that is has something to do with the output the Mac is set to in the Audio MIDI controls.

The wii can use a G network, so that shouldn't slow down the connection. Also, the Mac's MIDI controls don't effect the AE. Everything is converted to 44.1/16bit apple lossless before it is sent. I'd think dropouts happen anytime the wireless signal gets weak even for a moment. At my old place this used to happen a lot due to a heavily populated apartment complex. Too many signals to deal with.

 

[Oliver :)]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamoneagain /img/forum/go_quote.gif The wii can use a G network, so that shouldn't slow down the connection.

The DS is B as far as I know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamoneagain /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, the Mac's MIDI controls don't effect the AE.

Sorry if I was unspecific. What I meant is that any differences perceived when using the direct output from the Mac could likely be related to the setting in Audio MIDI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamoneagain /img/forum/go_quote.gif At my old place this used to happen a lot due to a heavily populated apartment complex. Too many signals to deal with.

Likely, there is a lot going on in that bit of the spectrum anyway. You can try your luck with the "immunity to interference" setting (sorry, don't know how it's called in the English version of OS X, you can find it in Airport dropdown in the menu bar) and by trying other channels. Maybe you can find one that is not as crowded.