Age-Old Quest - help needed!
Jan 18, 2019 at 11:10 AM Post #16 of 26
Maybe a common story, but... once upon a time I auditioned a high-end audio system. This was about 30 years ago, and its cost today would probably be in the $10k range. I was blown away by the sound it produced and how it transformed my test-CD into something new and amazing, letting me hear things I had never heard. Amazing... other than the fact I could not afford to buy it!

Now 30-years on, I am 50 years old. Did a hearing test recently, and I can hear up to ~15kHz still which I am happy with at my age! And I decided now I have a little more money, maybe I should buy that dream-system? Only times have changed so much.... I don't really have time to just sit-down and enjoy music in front of an audio system. I am in various rooms in the house, in-front of the computer, working at my desk, or maybe traveling on business. So I thought why not invest in some really good headphones? Maybe I can get the sound from 30-years ago right in my ears. Music-Wise, I enjoy most genre's from 80's pop to modern dance/dubstep and everything in-between.

So, I have a few IEM and over-ear headphones. Nothing super-fancy - all in the $50-$200 range. So I listened to them all with my iPhone, and the sound was definitely lacking. So I bought a DragonFly Red DAC. Sadly to say, I can't really hear any improvement with the DAC attached to my iPhone or my Macbook. I have tried a number of sources: Apple Music, Spotify (set to maximum quality), Tidal (both HiFi setting and their Masters Tracks) and VOX (including upsampling Spotify Tracks to 96kHz, the maximum the DragonFly can process). And to be honest I have a hard time differentiating any of the sources. Changing bit-rates makes the LED on the DragonFly change color, so I know I am getting data in different formats. But it just all sounds "okay".

My question now is given the fact I can't tell much difference, will I appreciate spending >$1K on a set of amazing headphones? Will it give me back what I think is missing, or will it still just sound "okay"? I live in Greensboro, NC, and there are no stores nearby where I can audition anything, making this selection even harder.

Decisions Decisions! Can anyone give me some good advice? I need some guidance!

Ok let’s see you are 50 now and your talking about listening to a premium stereo 30 years ago.

Check.

That made you 20 years old at the time of hearing that particular stereo.
So your in the same place that many of us are. Chasing the emotional highs that came with music at 20 years old. It’s totally a normal thing here to be looking for that. And it’s not happening with your current set-up but your gut instinct tells you that there is a possibility it’s out there.

Check.

Folks suggested going to a Head-Fi meet as a solution, and I would suggest that too as a great place to start. What happens here much of then time is you will read 50 posts about someone looking for a sound, then spending 1K only to find out it’s a let down and not the sound they were after. Truth to be stated there is a chance you could luck-out and find your dream system; but the odds are against it. For most of us this has been a learning curve. It was a quest which was sprinkled with both highs and lows.

Fact:
There is nothing wrong with not being able to differentiate between 24/96 and 16/44.1. It’s an argument that has ruled the forums, but when you find what your looking for, 320kbps will get you almost as excited as regular FLAC files and 24/96. Don’t get me wrong I do believe in the sound quality improvements from high resolution files; and even use those same files for testing gear in final tests. It’s just that there is far too much concern on their influence on someone reaching audio nirvana.

Fact:
You have to find your sound. It’s a learning curve of sorts but each person here has a basic idea of how the tone of good music sounds. That’s the single best reason why it’s hard for anyone to recommend anything to you. The best suggestion would be to try gear that you can return or take and get your money back if you don’t like the sound. That’s the second best methodology if you can’t get yourself to a Head-Fi meet.


Also keep in mind that finding your sound may not be something you recognize right off the bat. It takes at least a couple days or weeks till the dust settles on a new purchase and you get sonic acclamation. Also typically it’s not just a set of headphones but a whole system which offers the personality that your after. Keep in mind too, it’s in the details here. By that I mean, people have slowly kept adjusting small details until they were able to feel like they were finished. Also keep in mind some folks may even go past what would be perfect and somehow get caught up in consumerism.

Fact:
There has never been a time when so much good equipment is available. Also Head-Fi has changed dramatically in the last 10 years offering a bewildering amount of good information and suggestions.

Also you may have a couple folks who argue that the best equipment was available 8 years ago. But.......most level minded here recognize that mid-fi has truly changed making the present day the best time for putting an amazing system together on a budget. That mid-fi is closer now to sounding like what summit-fi sounded like 8 years ago. Much of the time $200 headphones can sound close to what $800 headphones sound like, if you chose to go down that rabbit hole. What I’m trying to say is stuff being expensive doesn’t always end up a guarantee of audiophile sound. Again it all goes back to tone and some folks like one tone and another set of people like another tone. There truly is no right or wrong in this hobby. The only wrong would be not letting yourself enjoy the music you deserve the way you want to hear it.

Myself:
Again this is simply one persons end results, as your trajectory may vary. I’m pretty much done with maybe a couple cable purchases this year and one IEM purchase. I really have no need for any more equipment. At the same time I have both explored portable systems and desktop systems. If I had only $1000 to spend, and knowing myself and knowing what I know now...........I would buy a Sony 1A DAP used for $700, a pair of BGVP DM6 IEMs and a balanced aftermarket cable with the extra $100. But again I see this as the best bang for the buck because I’m into IEMs, and I like the sound of the Sony DAPs.

The ridiculous thing is in many ways IEMs are a compromise. IEMs are almost never going to get to the full spectrum reproduction of a full-size headphone. But this hobby is about feeling the emotion of the music. It’s all an illusion. There are no musicians playing music in the room in front of you, it’s an illusion. So IEMs place the music slightly inside your head, where full-size headphones only place the music outside your head. You choose what illusion entertains you. And hopefully in the end it gets close to the emotion you felt at 20 years old.
 
Jan 18, 2019 at 12:20 PM Post #17 of 26
I hear you on that "blackness" effect! :)
Yes, the total blackness of a really clean system is impressive, and it's not just those moments of silence, it also makes a big difference with the music, bringing out details that you didn't hear before
Shouldn't those moments of silence have noise in them? lol just kidding.
I know that when I use my Denon AH-D5000 or AKG K702's with my Linn power amp (26 year old amp - made in 1993 and cost $4,000 when new, I bought it for $500 in 2013) those "moments of silence" actually contain lots of audible information, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem.
 
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Jan 18, 2019 at 12:55 PM Post #18 of 26
Also you may have a couple folks who argue that the best equipment was available 8 years ago. But.......most level minded here recognize that mid-fi has truly changed making the present day the best time for putting an amazing system together on a budget. That mid-fi is closer now to sounding like what summit-fi sounded like 8 years ago. Much of the time $200 headphones can sound close to what $800 headphones sound like, if you chose to go down that rabbit hole. What I’m trying to say is stuff being expensive doesn’t always end up a guarantee of audiophile sound. Again it all goes back to tone and some folks like one tone and another set of people like another tone. There truly is no right or wrong in this hobby. The only wrong would be not letting yourself enjoy the music you deserve the way you want to hear it.
.

This is an interesting point. I personally think that these day's it is harder to distinguish the great from the good because in my opinion, most headphones these day's have the same/ all too similar tuning/sound signature. It's kinda boring, in my opinion. It's partly the reason why I prefer older headphones and amplifiers. I blame Steve Jobs and the digital revolution (such as the introduction of the MP3 and MP3 players).
 
Jan 18, 2019 at 4:04 PM Post #19 of 26
This is an interesting point. I personally think that these day's it is harder to distinguish the great from the good because in my opinion, most headphones these day's have the same/ all too similar tuning/sound signature. It's kinda boring, in my opinion. It's partly the reason why I prefer older headphones and amplifiers. I blame Steve Jobs and the digital revolution (such as the introduction of the MP3 and MP3 players).
Hmmm....it's harder for you perhaps. I mean, just focusing on the headphones on Massdrop you mean to tell me that if you listened to the AKG 7XX, Hifiman 4XX and the Fostex TR X00 you wouldn't be able to tell the apart? C'mon man, we all like the good ole' days too, but be serious. Right now there is more variety, better availability and at lower prices than ever.
 
Jan 18, 2019 at 4:47 PM Post #20 of 26
Hmmm....it's harder for you perhaps. I mean, just focusing on the headphones on Massdrop you mean to tell me that if you listened to the AKG 7XX, Hifiman 4XX and the Fostex TR X00 you wouldn't be able to tell the apart? C'mon man, we all like the good ole' days too, but be serious. Right now there is more variety, better availability and at lower prices than ever.
Perhaps I wasn't being specific enough with my words. When I first started buying audiophile-grade headphones nearly 10 years ago now, I remember there being a bigger difference in sound signature and sound quality between the different models (ironically there weren't as many headphone models then as there are now). I have also owned/own headphones designed and manufactured in the mid/late 90's that sound very different and in my opinion more "Hifi" (for want of a better word) compared to their 2019 equivalents. Just think of how many variants of Fostex headphones there are now in the $400 - $1,100 pricerange compared to 10 years ago, think of how many rebrands of the same headphones there are now also in the $50 - $150 pricerange. Also consider that because of the existence of DAP's/smartphones and the lossy codecs , it has become the norm for headphone companies to tune their headphones a certain way. There are far too many bright sounding headphones now, compared to 10 years ago.
 
Jan 18, 2019 at 6:42 PM Post #21 of 26
Perhaps I wasn't being specific enough with my words. When I first started buying audiophile-grade headphones nearly 10 years ago now, I remember there being a bigger difference in sound signature and sound quality between the different models (ironically there weren't as many headphone models then as there are now). I have also owned/own headphones designed and manufactured in the mid/late 90's that sound very different and in my opinion more "Hifi" (for want of a better word) compared to their 2019 equivalents. Just think of how many variants of Fostex headphones there are now in the $400 - $1,100 pricerange compared to 10 years ago, think of how many rebrands of the same headphones there are now also in the $50 - $150 pricerange. Also consider that because of the existence of DAP's/smartphones and the lossy codecs , it has become the norm for headphone companies to tune their headphones a certain way. There are far too many bright sounding headphones now, compared to 10 years ago.
The AKG k701 is a very different headphone and has some similar sonic qualities as the HD800. I do agree that there is a new sound today where the manufacturers are putting in more bass in general. 10 years ago you needed the AHD-7000 for that style of bass. So even 10 years ago there was a range of tone. But that range if anything is still available today. There are more headphones for sale today hence more choice not less. But what happens is people get slowly comfortable with their 10 year old headphones and become in love with them; nothing wrong with that. It would almost be like someone finding a 10 year old pair of jeans which fit, and they are used to. In a slight way they don’t make that exact individual style, but there are more styles, just different.

There was a different audiophile idea then, old Sony had a different sound. That was because there were different engineers who were onto a particular sound which they thought was it. There could be a particular sound which can get attributed to an era. But if you really looked that sound is available today, by other manufacturers. It’s maybe not the exact sound as every headphone is slightly different.


Again there is not wrong or right in this hobby. If someone wants to actually believe they don’t make good headphones anymore that’s a respectable opinion as everything is 100% subjective. Though I believe the technology is getting better, just as the technology was better from the 1970s to the 1990s. Still there is nothing wrong with someone simply keeping their old gear, as that was the sound they arrived at.

Still all of us run the risk of being closed minded and actually deluded believing we have the absolute best. There will always be choices out there, the technology is improving not failing. But folks get tunnel vision thinking their gear is superior, that there is nothing else left. But because there is no right or wrong they CAN think that way. It’s when they fail to come to terms with the fact that even better equipment is available that they start to miss out.
 
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Jan 18, 2019 at 6:56 PM Post #22 of 26
Again there is not wrong or right in this hobby. If someone wants to actually believe they don’t make good headphones anymore that’s a respectable opinion as everything is 100% subjective. Though I believe the technology is getting better, just as the technology was better from the 1970s to the 1990s. Still there is nothing wrong with someone simply keeping their old gear, as that was the sound they arrived at.

I am going to push back just a little...in a thread like this, someone saying they don't make a good variety of headphones anymore is a disservice. Just because you are a crotchety old dog that likes the retro stuff, doesn't make it cool for you to infect the mind of someone trying to get INTO the hobby with your false info...it is empirically true that there are more and better choices now than ever before...coming 'round here and moaning about 'they don't make em like they used to' is un helpful...especially since in the headphone world they let product lines linger for a long time...there are tons of headphones from the good ole days that are still in production ....and an HD 600 still sounds different than a DT 880...
 
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Jan 18, 2019 at 8:47 PM Post #23 of 26
[QUOTE="Redcarmoose, post: 14726456, member: 105173"
Still all of us run the risk of being closed minded and actually deluded believing we have the absolute best.[/QUOTE]

I agree with much of what you say but I just want to point out that I am not one of those people that think that I have the absolute best. However, I think my Linn amp would still put many brand new $1K + amps to shame. It is of exceptional sound quality and was designed to be a part of a $15,000 separates system.
 
Jan 19, 2019 at 5:24 PM Post #24 of 26
Okay everyone... thanks for getting me here!

Just auditioned for about two hours a bunch of over-ear headphones (Audeze LCD- and LCD-X, Grado GS200e and PS500e and Focal Elear), with my Dragonfly Red (and an in-store NAiM DAC-V1 as a comparison)... and I just purchased a pair of Audeze LCD-X :)

I found the LCD-X very similar to the LCD-2, but being easier to drive with my modest DAC/AMP. Also the Focals were right up-there in sound. However the store cut me a great deal on the X so I am very happy :) Have spent about three hours listening since bringing them home, and I love them! I can now tell the difference if I use my "free" iPhone-adapter/DAC vs. the Dragonfly - things sound more muddled with the Apple adapter and much clearer with the Dragonfly. Comparing to my old cheap IEM's are astonishing - how did I live so my years with them??!

Thanks for all the advice... now onward to the next stage of my Quest! :)
 
Jan 19, 2019 at 5:36 PM Post #25 of 26
Great!! Happy for you! Enjoy!
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :L3000::L3000::L3000:
 
Jan 19, 2019 at 9:13 PM Post #26 of 26
Okay everyone... thanks for getting me here!

Just auditioned for about two hours a bunch of over-ear headphones (Audeze LCD- and LCD-X, Grado GS200e and PS500e and Focal Elear), with my Dragonfly Red (and an in-store NAiM DAC-V1 as a comparison)... and I just purchased a pair of Audeze LCD-X :)

I found the LCD-X very similar to the LCD-2, but being easier to drive with my modest DAC/AMP. Also the Focals were right up-there in sound. However the store cut me a great deal on the X so I am very happy :) Have spent about three hours listening since bringing them home, and I love them! I can now tell the difference if I use my "free" iPhone-adapter/DAC vs. the Dragonfly - things sound more muddled with the Apple adapter and much clearer with the Dragonfly. Comparing to my old cheap IEM's are astonishing - how did I live so my years with them??!

Thanks for all the advice... now onward to the next stage of my Quest! :)

Cool!
 

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