AfterMaster Pro technology make your audio sound incredible
Apr 27, 2016 at 3:51 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 8

VNandor

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I figured I should start a flamewar thread about it here.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/806030/the-aftermaster-pro-and-why-its-bullsh-t#post_12539025 Being in the members lounge.
 
www.aftermaster.com
 
So what do you think of it? It could turn out to be a very interesting discussion if he goes into a more technical explanation. I personally don't see how it could *always* make the sound better.
 
Apr 27, 2016 at 5:23 PM Post #2 of 8

[size=15.08px]Unlike other audio post production processes, AfterMaster preserves the original intention of an audio event and brings greater clarity, depth and amplitude to all of the audio elements without changing the integrity of the underlying recording. This is accomplished by AfterMaster’s proprietary and state-of-the-art Adaptive Intuitive Response™ mechanisms and complex algorithms, which provide a ground breaking, pristine listening experience where virtually every sonic detail is heard with added warmth and fidelity.  Indeed, without any compromises, apparent volume, richness and clarity can now be obtained on any device when AfterMaster’s real time intuitive audio enhancement is utilized.[/size]


 
 
Warning signs:
 
 
Internal contradictions
 
Pristine------Added Warmth
Pristine------Added Fidelity
Pristine-------Brings greater amplitude
 
 
brings greater clarity, depth and amplitude                                                                            - loudness (displacement)
 
preserves the original intention of an audio event - either redundant or just very puzzling
 
complex algorithms - an algorithm should do exactly what it is meant to do and hopefully relatively efficiently, but praising something just because it is complex is strange , an algorithm should be as complex as it needs to be and no more - I spent years as a maintenance programmer KISS!
 
 
But all fun aside I see zero meaningful explanation of the workings of the system without which it is impossible to evaluate
 
The demo has what to my admittedly old ears and in a completely subjective and wholly non litigious way sounds like a blatantly obvious volume boost on most tracks on the after button
 
Might be interesting to capture the streams and compare 
 
Apr 28, 2016 at 1:01 AM Post #3 of 8
You are right, I listened to that too and it does increase the volume quite a lot. I didn't try to somehow make a volume matched test, maybe when I'll have more time. As you can see, Aftermaster said its a "byproduct" of the process. I'm wondering why there isn't some sort of pre-gain which could make it to sound less loud.
 
 Lastly, as a very disciplined group of audio professionals, we would never put our names on a new kind of "loudness" button or device. The waveform that you posted shows an overall louder end product because EVERYTHING is improved THROUGHOUT the frequency range, making an increase in amplitude a by-product of our processing. We don't and would never make things loud for the sake of loudness. 

 
Apr 28, 2016 at 11:04 AM Post #4 of 8
  So what do you think of it? It could turn out to be a very interesting discussion if he goes into a more technical explanation. I personally don't see how it could *always* make the sound better.

 
It can't always sound better (!) and, "he" will not get into a more technical explanation or rather, he will never divulge enough of what's actually going on under the hood for us to really understand what's going on. However, exactly what it's doing is not the real issue here, there are wider issues at stake. So what do I think of it? ... On the one hand we have the marketing of this specific product and on the other hand is what's really at stake here. Dealing with the marketing first:
 
"AfterMaster preserves the original intention of an audio event and brings greater clarity, depth and amplitude to all of the audio elements without changing the integrity of the underlying recording."
 
OK, this is complete BS! How can AfterMaster possibly preserve the original intention? Have they developed an algorithm which can read my mind (as a producer/mix engineer), ascertain what my original intention is and then preserve it? Of course not! If it "brings greater clarity, depth ..." then the advertising is contradicting itself. What if my original intention for all or part of a track was less clarity and/or depth? A typical musical and production tool is contrast, the very last thing I want is "greater clarity and depth" in part of a track which was designed to have less clarity and/or depth in order to contrast with another part of the track which has more. In this example, EITHER it's preserving my original intention OR it's bringing greater clarity and depth but it cannot do both! Also, it's a physical impossibility for it to "bring greater amplitude"! Masters peak at, or extremely close to, 0dBFS, which is the absolute maximum amplitude limit of digital audio. Now maybe their process is decreasing crest factor and increasing RMS (as per standard dynamic range compression) but that's a greater average level NOT a greater amplitude! ... It's also troubling that they appear to be deliberately confusing and therefore misrepresenting their products/services. On the one hand they have traditional top class mastering suites/studios and mastering engineers. On the other hand they have ProMasterHD, an automated software mastering process, plus consumer units which appear to contain essentially the same software on an embedded chip. They are using the credits/accolades/discography of their mastering studios and mastering engineers to promote their software/hardware mastering solution, implying that the hardware/software they are selling is responsible for the accolades. If this were actually the case, they obviously wouldn't need the huge expense of mastering studios and engineers, they'd just run their mixes through their mastering software!
 
-----------------
 
There's a wider and more complex issue at stake here though. It's complex because it encompasses the impact of technology: On the creation process itself, on who has access to the creation process and on the income of the recording industry and therefore on the investment in creating recordings. Starting around 25 years ago, personal computer technology massively widened accessibility to digital audio for both the creation and the distribution of recordings. Aspiring artists no longer had to compete for a record deal to get distribution and consumers could get what they wanted for a fraction of the price (or no cost at all). Record labels virtually stopped trawling through thousands of cheap/crappy demo tapes looking for talent to invest in/develop as the cost/risk was too high compared to the returns. To get noticed by labels (or sell their content independently), the aspiring talent had to create (pay for) their own finished recordings rather than just make a demo tape. This almost always meant no mastering, simply because much aspiring talent didn't even know it existed and those who did, couldn't afford it. Technology and enterprise gradually filled the gap, "bedroom" mastering engineers sprang up offering mastering for a hundredth of the price of the revered experts in their 6 or 7 figure mastering suites. And, units came on the market which semi-automated the mastering process, the first and most successful being the Finalizer (20 years ago). I know people who charged $20 to master a track and just ran it through a Finalizer preset in their basement, a 10min job, no skill required. They bought out a 96kHz version of Finalizer in 2000, presumably for audiophile recordings/masters :)
 
Technology has improved in the last 16 years and the last couple of years has seen some innovations. Rather than just slapping a preset amount of shuffling, aural excitement, EQ and compression over everything it's fed, the new generation "mastering" processors attempt to apply processing more "intelligently". And, AfterMaster aren't the only game in town. Landr is an interesting competitor for example. It's an online automated mastering service based on an AI engine, it learns and improves. This newer generation doesn't just slap on mastering processes regardless of what they're fed, they analyse what they're fed, in the case of Landr, it references across it's database of analysed tracks and intelligently applies what it thinks are appropriate amounts of appropriate mastering processes. What you get out of it, depends on the quality of the mix you give it to master and in most cases the results are better than not mastering at all and often also better than most of the "bedroom" mastering services out there. Their weakness is of course that they're easy to fool, is what they think is "appropriate" really the best which can be achieved or is it even acceptably appropriate? When I'm mastering, I'm listening to the lyrics, the composition and the production, to work out what the "story" of the song is and the intention of the artists. I discuss with the producer what they want and their intentions before I start and then during mastering I come across relatively obvious errors and weakness which I fix/improve. I also come across errors/weakness which aren't so obvious. I don't mean very quiet, subtle errors/weaknesses, I mean it's hard to judge if they are in fact errors or if it's intended to be that way. The only way to find out is to pick up the phone and have a chat with the producer. If it is intentional, I'll try to emphasise it in some way, so that it appears intentional and less like an error. If it's not intentional, I'll do the opposite and try to hide, disguise or eliminate it. This is something an automated process cannot currently do of course. The best they can do is apply some generalised notion of what is "good" or "appropriate".
 
Having said all this and thoroughly trashed AfterMaster and it's ilk, I do believe we are witnessing the beginning of the end of the role of mastering engineer! Ultimately it comes down to simple economics. Record labels do not make the profits they once did and will no longer pay $20k+ for a top mastering engineer to master an album. The top mastering engineers get more like $5k to master an album today. Most aspiring artists only make a few thousand (or less) on an album these days and the price of an online subscription is the most they can afford for mastering, especially in light of the fact that consumers simply do not value high quality/fidelity. For this reason, even though they're relatively poor, these automated mastering processes are effectively seen as "good enuf" by many and as they improve and recording revenues/profits decline further, so they will become more attractive, even for record labels and eventually, even the major labels. Maybe 1 or 2 top mastering engineers will hang on, to cater to those very few blockbuster sized artists/albums but the mastering industry will effectively be dead. Most of the established, good mastering engineers I know are very pessimistic about the future, quite a few don't believe they'll still be in the music industry in 5 years time.
 
G
 
May 4, 2016 at 10:36 AM Post #6 of 8
Jun 9, 2016 at 3:11 AM Post #8 of 8
Reviving this thread, I noticed that they have also produced a chip that they are implying will be embedded in phones, PC's and even headphones. Unlike many others, it does seem like they are improving the audio to a degree, and it is not all snake oil. Their reluctance to talk about it is somewhat understandable given the fact that they don't want to see a cheaper, nearly as good product pop up out of China for 1/2 the price before shipping their first products. Their software seems to be somewhat well regarded in the recording industry from what I have read so far. I guess it comes down to wether or not you like their processed sound, and the lack of ability to tune it to your personal preferences. I would rather see them release a consumer priced and simplified version of their software that can be tweaked and process your high res files through and essentially re-record them with their tweaks embedded. There are other products that do similar encoding, but not to this degree. i think this may have some value for home theater systems, but it's headphone usage seems to be a very polarizing thing, some like it, and many hate it.

Here is the proposal:
It is, of course, hard to tell its real value without buying one and trying it. So, who wants to take the jump? Honestly, I would like to see some small group buys of a single device like this, just for testing and evaluation purposes, with interested parties throwing in say $20 each, and passing it around among the "owners" to test and listen to as they wish (non-destructive testing, of course), and eventually one of the group buying it out or selling it on eBay or here if there is no interest in keeping it. With so much going on out there, and so much interest in such things, it may be a good way to try new tech without one person sinking all of their money into it.
I am also interested in the performance of this device, which claims to analyze your hearing, and equalizing your music after your results are saved to the device. I think this may have some value, but I really do not want to sink $150 into it to see if it is worth it. It is the Aumeo device, and it seems to be selling well, but I have yet to find a technically oriented breakdown of how it works and if it is at all worth it. I discovered that I have a hearing dead spot in the 180hz range while messing with a tone generator. I mean it just drops off to near zero, and then comes back around 190-200hz. I swear that it is the exact frequency of my wife's speaking range, and it has simply died from overuse. The audiologist who I saw about this thought that was a great joke. I was not joking. Apparently, it is a real disorder. ( http://www.healthyhearing.com/report/51991-Cochlear-dead-zones-a-rare-form-of-hearing-loss ).
Anyway, I wonder if there is any interest in some sort of buyers club for things like this, be it for simple curiosity or an actual desire to try something without having to pay full price, with the added benefit of possibly recovering some or all of your small investment. It would require more work around rules, and establishing a trust system for those who we will be passing it around to, possibly even a Paypal deposit or some other form of guarantee until some reputation is established. Soooo, any interest? I am not even married to trying these two devices. The floor is open to proposals. I just think that there is an opportunity here to evaluate some of the more fringe tech for minimal financial risk. Who, knows, we may actually learn something that could knock us off of our high horse and move beyond snap judgement by self appointed "experts" who piss on everything they don't personally own, which I have seen a bit of on here, as a longtime lurker. If nothing more, it could be good for a laugh for a $20 investment, which you may even recover. After all, isn't the point of all of this to expand our knowledge, and try new things? Sometimes, I sense that there are others who think like me, but are reluctant to get flamed for suggesting certain products, so they stay quiet to avoid embarrassment. Hell, we can call it the Snake Oil Skunk Works or something witty, and evaluate some of those products that are not clearly snake oil, but are not clearly solid technology either. It is the stuff that falls in a grey zone (which will lead to some serious debate as well, which can be shut down by a simple "we will remove you from the list of potential investors" and thus end the drawn out debates that can suck the fun out of a venture like this).
I have experience with this on a now defunct BMW forum, where we tested some products from lesser known manufacturers or those that made questionable performance gains, and it turned out to be funny at times, and eye opening at others. It did generate some ridiculously damaged products for warranty claims, which we can not do with this venture. But more than anything, it ended lengthy debates and put some smug "experts" down a knotch or two in a few cases, which is always fun.
 

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