[Dorfmeister]

I want to get a portable digital recording unit (mini-disc?, DAT?) unit to use to make field recordings to be processed in sound forge and turned into audio loops for use in acid and cakewalk sonar.

I would like to find something decent under $100. I could probably afford $150 but $200 would probably make think think twice.

Any advice?

Thanks.

 

[veezhun]

try this

http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-RH710.html

the price has dropped quite a bit.. i am recording with a mz rh10.. it is awesome and the media is very cheap and durable.

you wont go wrong with a Hi MD for recording.. also with sonicstage 3.2, you can upload unlimited times and there is no DRM in your own recordings.,.

cheers

 

[jmb]

The best DAP for live recording is the Creative Labs Nomad Jukebox 3. It is the only mp3 player live tapers use. It can record continuously and in WAV format. Uploading is a breeze too. You can find them used (eBay) for pretty reasonable prices. They are not in production anymore.

Minidisc is a good option, but HiMD (supports PCM recording though) units are expensive, and then you are limited to the number of 1GB discs you have. The JB3's harddrive can easily be upgraded up to 100GB. It uses toshiba laptop HD's.

I suggest checking out the discussion site:

http://www.taperssection.com/

They will be able to help find the best unit for your needs.

I highly recommend the JB3 though. You will want to run it with two batteries to get good battery life when recording without a power source. For high quality, budget, live recording, it has no competitor.

 

[tradja]

Creative JB3 seconded. I have used mine for live recording for almost two years. I bought it from Creative on ebay as a refurb. The optical digital in, WAV recording, no media to buy, firewire transfers, and not a bad onboard ADC make a winning combination. taperssection.com is a great board to learn more. I don't think you could get a functional JB3 for $100, but if you stretched to your $150-$200 limit you'd have no problem. However, there is no mic power or usable mic preamp, necessitating additional external equipment. Do you already have a mic(s), mic preamp and power supply?

DATs are fussy (heads require maintenance, realignment, and replacement), expensive, and require real-time transfers. That being said, most high-end tapers I know still use DAT (or laptop), FWIW.

MiniDisc seems like a great solution at first. These little units are robust, small, cheap on ebay, and many have great battery life (50+ hours playback). Click here for tons of specs (I wish there were a headphone database like this!

). Media is cheap. Most (but not all) feature a Mic In jack with ok-to-fair mic preamp with a small amount of mic power (typically 3V, but most mini mics require 9v for full performance, and many full-size mics require 48v). So, unlike a JB3, a MD can be a one-box solution: you can really just plug in some mini mics and go.

But, with regular MD, real-time analog transfers (to PC) are a downer. Digitial transfers are possible, but require one of a minority of home decks that have a digital out. Also, MD (ATRAC) is a compressed format to begin with.

Hi-MD could be a cool solution, with digital transfers of your uncompressed recorded material and a larger disc, but they are pricey. And blank Hi-MD's are expensive (~$6-$7 each).

I've really enjoyed my progression of MD decks. They are a great little gadget and is still my backup listening/recording rig. I still use it for travel recording, because mine (like many older models) uses 1 AA, not some fussy proprietary internal rechargable either alone or in tandem with an external AA.

There are probably several other options, if MP3 would be suitable for your use. Check out http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/iaudio/u2/
, with a line-in. Headfi-er's Asr and lumanogin each have one, perhaps you could PM them and ask about the recording functions.

Keep us posted in this thread about how your search progresses! I am very curious about new options in digital field recording.

 

[veezhun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tradja . But, real-time MD analog transfers (to PC) are a downer. Digitial transfers are possible, but require one of a minority of home decks that have a digital out. Also, MD (ATRAC) is a compressed format to begin with. I've really enjoyed my progression of MD decks. They are a great little gadget and is still my backup listening/recording rig. I still use it for travel recording, because mine (like many older models) uses 1 AA, not some fussy proprietary internal rechargable.

with the advent of Hi MD, there is no need for real time analog transfers. you can use USB to upload to Sonicstage 3.2. THe new version allows unlimited uploads too and no DRM. Also, there is an option for a battery pack that uses an AA battery and as far as the proprietary battery goes, it is very good and easily available for very cheap online.

Further, with Hi MD, you can record uncompressed PCM on a 1GB disk for 1 hour and 34 minutes. WIth the external battery pack attached, you can record for an unlimited amount of time.

cheers

 

[jmb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by veezhun with the advent of Hi MD, there is no need for real time analog transfers. you can use USB to upload to Sonicstage 3.2. THe new version allows unlimited uploads too and no DRM. Also, there is an option for a battery pack that uses an AA battery and as far as the proprietary battery goes, it is very good and easily available for very cheap online. Further, with Hi MD, you can record uncompressed PCM on a 1GB disk for 1 hour and 34 minutes. WIth the external battery pack attached, you can record for an unlimited amount of time. cheers

HiMD units still can't beat a JB3. It is, by far, a budget tapers best choice.

 

[tradja]

Quote:

Originally Posted by veezhun with the advent of Hi MD, there is no need for real time analog transfers. you can use USB to upload to Sonicstage 3.2. THe new version allows unlimited uploads too and no DRM. Also, there is an option for a battery pack that uses an AA battery and as far as the proprietary battery goes, it is very good and easily available for very cheap online. Further, with Hi MD, you can record uncompressed PCM on a 1GB disk for 1 hour and 34 minutes. With the external battery pack attached, you can record for an unlimited amount of time. cheers

Indeed. See also: Quote:

Originally Posted by tradja Hi-MD could be a cool solution, with digital transfers of your recorded material and a larger disc, but they are pricey.

I was referring to regular MD in the material you quoted (now edited). Sorry for the confusion! Also, my MZ-N10 wouldn't run off of the external AA pack when the internal battery was depleted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmb HiMD units still can't beat a JB3. It is, by far, a budget tapers best choice.

For traditional concert taping, I agree! However, the OP was interested in recording bits of ambient field recording sound for DJ/remix use. Given Dorfmeister's criteria and stated budget of ~$150 max, I think that a MD/HiMD is worth considering becuase of the built-in mic pre/phantom power. It'd be very tough to do a JB3 with external mic pre and phantom power for under $150.

Welcome to taping, and sorry about your wallet!

 

[bangraman]

In that situation I'd go for Hi-MD as well. For all the indifferent things I can say about it as a playback platform, it's a great recorder. And as someone else said, now uploads are fully unrestricted. You have the choice of automatic or manual volume control as well, and I feel that as a recorder in terms of the control you have, it is superior to the JB3. I love the JB3 too (I still use it), but it is a tank and is not as good as the Hi-MD's if your recording needs are short duration and you want to work off a portable plug-in type mic.

 

[dk123]

I just got the Sony MZ-RH910 on Amazon for like $148 shipped. For recording from an external microphone, using LPCM, it sounds quite good. A big improvement for this purpose over my old MZ-R30. Seems to sound improved on both ends of the spectrum, with less tinny treble and fuller bass. I would recommend it, although so far, the UI is not that great. The old Sony from 1998 is easier to use in this regard. The menu system is really irritating and not well thought out...hard to believe...still, it seems to sound good, and thats the main thing.

 

[jmb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tradja For traditional concert taping, I agree! However, the OP was interested in recording bits of ambient field recording sound for DJ/remix use. Given Dorfmeister's criteria and stated budget of ~$150 max, I think that a MD/HiMD is worth considering becuase of the built-in mic pre/phantom power. It'd be very tough to do a JB3 with external mic pre and phantom power for under $150.

Your right. I he does not plan on taping concerts and will only use his unit for small snippits of ambient noise/sounds HiMD is the way to go.

 

[Dorfmeister]

I am looking to buy a mini-disc recorder on e-bay. If you wanted to spend less than $100 used which unit would you choose and what accessories are absolutely essential to its use?

 

[tradja]

You might look at a Sony R700 or N707. Both have great battery life and an okay mic input, and can be found relatively cheap. I don't have much experience with (generally highly regarded) Sharp MD or any Hi-MD units. (The latter could be a budget buster, IME)

For more general info on MD check out www.minidisc.org. See also this headfi thread.

For ambient recording, you will need at the minimum some mics. A basic mini-mic like this or this will get you started (and probably sound better than you would expect). In addition to a pair full-size mics, I have these mini mics and I am always impressed, especially when used to make a binaural recording (search headfi for "binaural" for more on this remarkable recording technique). Another source for cool mics is here.

IME, these mics perform MUCH beter when powered with a full 9v, instead of the measly 3v(?) that the MD deck will provide. At 3v, the mics really can't handle much SPL at all, and even moderate sounds will overload the mic and cause nasty clipping. Dynamic range will also be quite limited at 3v. To provide the mics with 9v, I highly recommend that you get a battery box. Several small companies make them. You can make one (instructions here , and here) or buy one from Sound Professionals or Reactive . Another good place to get one is to post a WTB at the FS forum at www.taperssection.com. (registration required). Offers are usually plentiful and usually come in around $30 shipped, a lot less than new.
I still haven't found a good way to search for a mic battery box on ebay -- try searching for "battery box" sometime!

A similarly priced, higher quality, but much less portable solution would be to get a small portable mixer and "full-size" mics on ebay, but this really defeats the portability of the MD unit. The Samson Mixpad 4 is about $160 new, but used ones go for around $40 on ebay and taperssection. I've still got mine as a backup, and I love it. I even used it as the PA system at my own wedding. People seem to like the battery- or AC-powered Behringer Eurorack Mixer as well. From here, you'd just get some cheap XLR cables and any old dynamic (no power required) or condenser mic(s) on ebay. I got a sweet pair of vintage Shure dynamic vocal mics for $7 on ebay two years ago.

Lots of options.

 

[Dorfmeister]

Thanks for the detailed response, Tradja. What do you use to get the files from the md recorder to your hard drive? I am assuming this machine does not have usb.

 

[tradja]

No regular (non-HiMD) portable MD decks have a USB or other digital out. You transfer to PC via analog (1/8" line out) to your soundcard, or you buy a $$$ MD home component deck that has a digital out, into a digital input on your PC or standalone CD burner. Either way is a real-time transfer (i.e. a 60 minute recording takes 60 minutes to transfer). These transfers (digital -> analog -> digitial) are one big reason I and others switched to the aforementioned JB3 (USB and firewire transfers.)

I've read that Hi-MD allows USB upload of recordings that you have made (as long as you made the recordings with an analog input, like mics).

 

[phosfiend]

If you had the cash i'd say an M-audio microtrack would be the best solution, but right now its too expensive.

in terms of bang for buck/all in one - MD is the way to go.
some good units:

sony n707
sony n710
SHARP MD-MT190
SHARP MD-DR7 (older brother to the next one, the DR7 is legendary)
SHARP MD-DR77 (even better than the DR7 - as good as it gets, this thing is awesome, and goes for a little over 100$ on ebay all the time) link
And there are tons of cheap mini mic options around: link

I've used a few different units, and I'm a big SHARP fan, solidly built (the above sharps are made of metal, the sony's are plastic) and they have great screens.

OH, ALMOST FORGOT. Nearly all recent generation Sony's use AVLS (auto volume level system) on their mic inputs, which is a huge pain in the ass if you're recording even remotely dynamic sounds (can yield some nasty surprises).

Get a sharp and a pile of MD's - you'll have it kicking around for years and will find great uses it you never thought possible.