[Ffodor]

I finally decided to start upgrading my gear incrementally, starting with the CD player and the interconnects, then with an integrated amplifier (in 2-3 months), then a headphone amplifier and some cans like the Senns 580 (6 months) and finally some half-decent speakers (1 year, if everything holds). Currently, my components will be considered very low-end by most here: a Marantz 5-disc changer (CC-38), a Marantz receiver (SR-48mkII) and PSB alpha bookshelf speakers. I have Grado SR-60s, that I connect directly on the jack of the receiver.

I am just coming back from a listening session of 4 or 5 under US 1000$ CD players, and I have picked 2 that I will try out for the week-end with my fairly miserable receiver and speakers (ok, ok, they are not so bad, they gave me and still give me a lot of pleasure). The two that I have selected are possibly the most opposite I heard, the Rotel RCD-1072 and the Shanling CD-T80 (a tube player).

In store, with a reference system, the Rotel sounded very dynamic and detailed, punchy and with a lot of rhythm. Details in the higher end of the spectrum were especially fantastic (the salesman found it too bright, but I disagreed). The dynamic shift from silence to orchestral explosion was very impressive. By comparison, the Shanling was much smoother, very musical and with a round voluptuous sound. What it lost in detail, it gained in loveliness. I listened to 2 or 3 female latino singers on this (don't remember the name, sorry) and I fell in love ... 2 or 3 times.

Anyone knows these players and has comments on them? Maybe more importantly, anyone can share impressions on the differences (strengths and weaknesses) of tube players versus solid state players. I went to the store with the firm belief that I would not buy a tube player, but now I am wavering. Sure, Beethoven's 5th or Rancid are not as exciting but, hey, falling in love with every female singer... Final question: what kind of music should I listen to, to expose the potential deficiencies of each player?

BTW, I like a wide variety of musical genres. In order of importance my listening can be roughly divided in: classical (35%, with 20% chamber and instrumental and 15% orchestral and choral), hard rock/punk/metal (20%, from the 70s to the naughties), pop/rock/folk (20%, including the Beatles, Neil Young, cheesy 80s songs, Cowboy Junkies, Lou Reed, etc.), jazz (10% from Coltrane to N. Simone to acid jazz, but no big band stuff), French sing-songwriters (5%) and a lot of other stuff. I do not like hip hop, most rap, dance, electronic...

Thanks in advance.

p.s. BTW, here are the other CD players I listened to:
- Shanling CD-S100 (solid state brothers of the T80) Verdict: way too bright and harsh, total opposite of its tube sibling.
- Rega Planet 2000 Verdict: interesting, but a little veiled, without the excitement of the Rotel and without the "falling in love" factor
- Audio Refinement ??? (don't know the model, sorry) Verdict: very similar to the Rega, quite musical but even less exciting
- Cambridge Azur 640C Verdict: seemed interesting, but heard at another store, in poorer conditions and with a fairly bad salesperson. Unfortunately, I won't go back there.

 

[styler]

rotel - known for simplicity quality and good sound.
shanling - known for strange looks and poor build quality (but getting better)

in my opinion, for your price range a used Music hall Maverick SACD
rega is good but in many ways a sony with a rega enclosure
if you dont want sacd, look on ebay for a used Pioneer Elite PD-65, will beat the Rotel and was the longest running production of any cd player ever made. also look at modded players on audiogon.com e.g., Jolida 100A, nice tube layer with, in my opinion, much better build quality than the Shanling

both souond reasonable, BUT you cant go wrong with Rotel and it will likely hold its value better due to more classic design.
tyler

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by styler rotel - known for simplicity quality and good sound. shanling - known for strange looks and poor build quality (but getting better) both souond reasonable, BUT you cant go wrong with Rotel and it will likely hold its value better due to more classic design. tyler

Indeed, people are asking daft amounts for 10 - 15 year old Rotel CDPs and getting them. I have an RCD-02 which (some say) is a 1072 with a poorer power supply and a smaller chassis

. It is frankly a very nice sounding unit, brighter than the old 855 I had but a lot more detailed, great for classical perhaps a touch polite for Rock but thats just a personal opinion, I listen to it for 7 - 8 hours a day sat/sun and it is never fatiguing.

 

[Ffodor]

Thank you very much for the advice. One thing I had not thought of was resale value. Come to think of it, that's actually an important factor.

The general impression of the Rotel corresponds pretty much to my short experience, and I am very glad to know that at least one person thinks it is not fatiguing. I will try to see how it fares with Metallica and Sum41

(although I guess a tube player or my Marantz will not really challenge it on this point). But reading this helps explain why Hi-Fi choice did not rank the Rotel very high, while it got great reviews from Absolute Sound and Diapason (a French classical music mag).

I looked at the Jolida100. Seems very interesting and I will consider it if I do not buy the Shanling (maybe as a second source, seems to be complementary to the Rotel). My problem is that I would like to listen to it, before buying, especially in a comparative setting. I do not believe that it is sold locally where I live (Ottawa). Similar problem for the Pioneer (I understand it has been discontinued). Besides, cross-border shipping sucks, big time!

Thanks again. Will let you know what I choose. Meanwhile, any other advice (within the -US 1000$ is welcome).

 

[GWN]

OZ Enterprizes is the Jolida dealer in Ottawa. Give Omer (the owner) a call. A nice fellow to deal with. http://www.ozenterprises.net/

 

[replytoken]

While your source is very important, might I suggest that you consider looking at speakers first if you plan on listening to them a lot. Your choice of speakers will have a great impact on what you hear from everything upstream. Granted, changing the source can have a big impact on the quality of sound, but speakers will probably have a greater impact on the type of sound you are looking to find. I recently auditioned two new CDP's at appriximately $1k each and realized that neither provided that much of a change worthy of their price. So, I am currently listening to new speakers and I can say they have changed the sound of my system. Eventually I will go back and look at a new CDP, but for now, I need to get a front end that I enjoy. In short, will the Rotel sound as good with your new speakers, and will you now be building a system around your Rotel?

 

[drminky]

Quality issues aside, there are other considerations to be made in making this decision.
Firstly, remember that being a tube product, the shanling's potential cannot be totally judged with it's stock (cheap'n'nasty) tubes in it. Quite a dramatic difference can be had with a tube roll and it is a very effective way of tailoring the sound to your needs as your kit changes. Expect that with some nice NOS tubes an increase in clarity, freq extension, and less of the 'softening' effect you noticed when switching to it. The flexibility of tuning can really come in handy when you get your dream speakers and/or amp just to find the sound is too bright, for instance.

The other thing to factor is in your choice of the rest of your kit. Because you plan to take the slow approach of aquiring kit piece by piece, you have a chance to tune your system how you like it as you go. This is the best way of going, imo. After a few months of living with your cdp, you will know its quirks, strengths and weakness. Then you can seek out kit that builds on its strenths while balancing out its weaknessess. Your CDP too fatiguing? Maybe partner it will a smooth amp with rolled off treble. If its too soft, go for one that's more upfront.

hope this helps.

 

[Ffodor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by replytoken While your source is very important, might I suggest that you consider looking at speakers first if you plan on listening to them a lot. Your choice of speakers will have a great impact on what you hear from everything upstream. Granted, changing the source can have a big impact on the quality of sound, but speakers will probably have a greater impact on the type of sound you are looking to find. I recently auditioned two new CDP's at appriximately $1k each and realized that neither provided that much of a change worthy of their price. So, I am currently listening to new speakers and I can say they have changed the sound of my system. Eventually I will go back and look at a new CDP, but for now, I need to get a front end that I enjoy. In short, will the Rotel sound as good with your new speakers, and will you now be building a system around your Rotel?

I thought about the strategy of going with the new speakers, but my hesitation comes from the fact that my current amplifier might not be able to drive my new speakers correctly at all... This is a kind of egg and chicken problem. That said, I absolutely understand what you mean with CDPs not doing a whole lot. In fact, testing the two CDPs with my other components, I realize that the improvement is very subtle over my current low-end Marantz. However, I am confident that a good CDP will help me appreciate much more the differences between amplifiers and between speakers, and make a better choice. So, yes, I guess I will be building my new system aound the Rotel (the likely winner), and I will have to wait to unleash its potential.

 

[Ffodor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drminky Quality issues aside, there are other considerations to be made in making this decision. Firstly, remember that being a tube product, the shanling's potential cannot be totally judged with it's stock (cheap'n'nasty) tubes in it. Quite a dramatic difference can be had with a tube roll and it is a very effective way of tailoring the sound to your needs as your kit changes. Expect that with some nice NOS tubes an increase in clarity, freq extension, and less of the 'softening' effect you noticed when switching to it. The flexibility of tuning can really come in handy when you get your dream speakers and/or amp just to find the sound is too bright, for instance.

That's an excellent point. However, one other option is to simply change the player when you get tired of it, and buy another one that corresponds to your (new) taste

Besides, the Rotel is cheaper (by US $300) and would probably be easier to resell. Do you think that tuning the Shanling would end up being cheaper than selling the Rotel and buying what I would then need (say, a Rega Planet or a Jolida 100A)?

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by replytoken While your source is very important, might I suggest that you consider looking at speakers first if you plan on listening to them a lot. Your choice of speakers will have a great impact on what you hear from everything upstream. Granted, changing the source can have a big impact on the quality of sound, but speakers will probably have a greater impact on the type of sound you are looking to find. I recently auditioned two new CDP's at appriximately $1k each and realized that neither provided that much of a change worthy of their price. So, I am currently listening to new speakers and I can say they have changed the sound of my system. Eventually I will go back and look at a new CDP, but for now, I need to get a front end that I enjoy. In short, will the Rotel sound as good with your new speakers, and will you now be building a system around your Rotel?

That's really playing with a double edged sword. You could just as easily point out that cheaper digital sources can have a tendency to be bass shy and have a harsher treble so when buying high-end speakers it would be very easy to end up buying something that compensates for these flaws but doesn't sound as good when matched with a more natural and balanced source. Even though I went about it backwards, in an ideal world I think I would rather build a system around a decent source but that's just me.

 

[AuroraProject]

I have the Rotel you are looking at in silver. It is a great player, as mentioned it is very detailed and maybe a tad on the warm side. I can listen to it for hours without getting fatigued.

 

[replytoken]

I see your point, elnero, and I do not necessarily disagree. What drives me to want to select my front end first is that at any given price point, I am inclined to believe that there will be greater differences in the "sound" of your system from a change in speakers than from a change in source, assuming your initial source is not a total piece of junk. Unelss the change is substantial, and usually very expensive, I would tend to look at changes in the source more as improvements in the quaility of sound, and less in the "type" of sound. Thus, I guess I want to find the "sound" that I am looking for first, and then want to incrementally improve on it.

Ideally, I recommend listening to any source with the amp and speakers that you would ideally like to purchase in the future, so you can see if there is any synergy that you find appealing. Now if I can only find a way to bring my living room along with me when I go to audition equipment!