[Danzas123]

Hi All,
 
I am a new member at Head-Fi but a long time observer and have gained a lot of insight and taken many recommendations. Head-fi is the reason I own:
 
IEMs (used 8 hours a day at work):
VSonic GR06 (purchased 2012)
VSonic GR07 Bass Edition (purchased March 2014)
 
Thanks to |joker| for his multi-IEM reviews as this helped me discover Vsonic, a Chinese IEM manufacturer selling IEMs priced well below peers based on SQ output. I love listening to the GR06s still but thought it was time to upgrade.
 
DAP:
Sansa Clip+ (purchased 2012 recently Rockboxed)
 
DAC/AMP:
iFi iDSD Micro (just ordered and still hasn't arrived as yet)
 
Also in my list of devices are the following that I acquired when setting up my media theatre:
AVR:
Yamaha RX-V3900
Speakers:
Bowers and Wilkins (B&W) 600 Series
Front L&R: B&W 683
Rear L&R: B&W 685
Centre: B&W HTM
Subwoofer: REL T1
 
Lastly I have the following for my desktop and portable devices:
Headphones:
Sennheiser HD555
Audio Technica ATH-M50
 
DAC/Tube AMP
Hifiman EF2A - Stock tubes (Tube recommendations welcome for 6J1=EF95=5654=6AK5W)
 
DAP
iPod Nano 16GB 5th Gen
 
Non HIFI gear:
Nexus 5
 
So coming to the main aim of this thread is that I would like to invest in an audiophile grade DAP, if one should exist, that would fit nicely with all the above gear and following requirements.
 
DAP Requirements:
- Good match with GR07BE over and above all other gear
- Good match for the iDSD Micro, second most important requirement
    - Should be able to output to the iDSD with the best quality so preferably SPDIF
    - Should enhance SQ and not detract from iDSD
- Possible to work as a portable DAC
- Ability to play most file formats (although most audiophile grade DAPs already do)
- Matches these particular genres more: progressive trance, acoustics/vocals, R&B, POP, chill, house and tropical.
- Under AUD500
- Once paired to the iDSD Micro I plan to also output this to the AVR and listen on the B&W speakers. (Thus if it can enhance the less musically exciting RX-V3900 then this would also be ideal)
 
I've looked at the iBasso DX90 and DX50. I can get the DX90 on ebay for under $500 but it's not through ideal sources. There is also HifiMan and FiiO. I've read that FiiO sound sig can be a bit warm and lacks detail... thus I'm hesitant on FiiO.
 
The Sansa Clip+ only has headphone out so it's not ideal. I also find that after listening to the GR07BE on the Clip+ it has left me desiring more SQ wise. The acquisition of the GR07BEs has set off a chain reaction. I usually plug these in to the computer at work the Sansa Clip+ or an iPod Nano 5th Gen.
 
With the DAC/AMP I was tossing up between the iBasso D-Zero MK2, JDS Labs C5D and yet decided on the expensive iDSD Micro as this had no compromises according to reviews I read on Head-fi.
 
I've been burning-in the GR07BEs and also listening to them I have now gotten over 100hrs. My ears are very sensitive to treble so I find them a little fatiguing for longer sessions. I'm hoping the more these are used that this will go away?

I am looking forward to all your recommendations and advice. I was wondering if I made the right decision in getting the iDSD Micro, but I feel it's the most future proof product I've bought. I can upgrade headphones, DAPs etc but the iDSD should fit right in as I've heard many users say it matches reference quality products 2 to 3 times it's price. And I think that's why I bit the bullet and paid the higher amount.
 
Thanking you all in advance.
 
Cheers

 

[cel4145]

I've looked at the iBasso DX90 and DX50. I can get the DX90 on ebay for under $500 but it's not through ideal sources. There is also HifiMan and FiiO. I've read that FiiO sound sig can be a bit warm and lacks detail... thus I'm hesitant on FiiO.

If you are going to use your DAP with the iFi iDSD Micro, then it doesn't matter how the DAP sounds, or even what kind of DAC/headphone amp it has in it. Get the cheapest one with coaxial out that has the UI features that you want

 

[Danzas123]

Thanks for the tip , I was just reading this link and I wondered the same thing. It will save me a fortune, however I still would like good SQ to pair it with the GR07 BEs. So that might mean the DX50 would be a good fit? Any DAPs you would recommend?
 
I was also reading this:
http://www.technoheadphone.com/amplifier-dac/ifi-audio-micro-idsd-features/10/
 
I haven't heard of any DAPs with USB output, but if possible this would mean I could connect the DAP to iDSD via USB and the iDSD to the AVR via SPDIF Output as opposed to RCA output.
 
... I digress, my main aim is to pair the GR07 BEs and second the iDSD Micro. I might not always use the iDSD Micro while listening to the DAP.
 
I might just use my laptop with the iDSD for the media theatre which avoids having to match a DAP.
 

 

[cel4145]

I have the DX50. Got my son the Fiio X3 for Xmas. They are pretty comparable, IMO. For the price, I think you chose the one you like better.

I don't think the USB on DAPs will work as USB out for a DAC, but I could be wrong. There are owners/impressions threads for the major DAPs here on head-fi. If you google search the make/model with keyword "head-fi" you'll find them. Good place to ask a very specific question like that for the DAP you consider.

 

[Danzas123]

Thanks cel4145 for the advice. I've been reading the reviews and impressions page for the DX90 and DX50, FiiO X1, X3 and X5 but I can't figure out what will be the best match with the GR07 BE.
 
How would you describe the sound signature? I read one review which described it as: "Very warm and flavoured sound".
 
I think warmer sound is probably better for the GR07s but I want to ask whether you would recommend the DX50. Luckily a store sells these locally so I will go audition them and make a decision based on that.
 
Cheers

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
I was also reading this:
http://www.technoheadphone.com/amplifier-dac/ifi-audio-micro-idsd-features/10/
 
I haven't heard of any DAPs with USB output, but if possible this would mean I could connect the DAP to iDSD via USB and the iDSD to the AVR via SPDIF Output as opposed to RCA output.

 
I went through the text in that link twice over and I can't see what you thought meant you can hook up a DAP to that DAC via USB. Also the DAPs have coaxial digital output, I don't see why you would even consider USB.
 
What it was saying there is that it can take a USB audio signal (from a computer for example, or compatible Android/iOS devices if any) and then output it through coaxial SPDIF, but it can also take a signal via coaxial SPDIF as an input.

 

[cel4145]

How would you describe the sound signature? I read one review which described it as: "Very warm and flavoured sound".

To me, decent solid state amps and dacs sound way, way more similar than different, amps generally have very linear frequency response that have little audible difference in tone within the range of human hearing, and so I personally question any description that begins with "very."

 

[Danzas123]

   
I went through the text in that link twice over and I can't see what you thought meant you can hook up a DAP to that DAC via USB. Also the DAPs have coaxial digital output, I don't see why you would even consider USB.

I am aware that DAPs have coaxial digital output but the reason I was considering a DAP having USB output is that I believe USB input would be better than SPDIF input. Of course I don't know this to be fact, the reason I was thinking this is that the iDSD has the USB purifier. Furthermore as per my post I thought SPDIF out from the iDSD to the AV Receiver versus RCA... I don't know what would be better.
 
This from the article also had me wondering:
"This was by far, the most popular choice on this Crowd-Design thread and while we knew SPDIF output was popular, we did not really place much importance on SPDIF input".
 
Never mind all of this however, it was just a thought, if this is not possible then as I said I'll stick with a laptop.
 

What it was saying there is that it can take a USB audio signal (from a computer for example, or compatible Android/iOS devices if any) and then output it through coaxial SPDIF, but it can also take a signal via coaxial SPDIF as an input.

 
I did understand this from the article. My questions arise from the lack of a clear understanding on which circuits get used by the iDSD depending on the input/output choices.
 
- (I believe) Using USB input uses all circuits (especially USB purifier and DAC)
- (Question) Using SPDIF input does this utilise the DAC, XBass, 3D circuits when outputting via RCA? 
  - If so then I am sorted and I will buy a DAP with COAX out.
  - Are there any negatives to using RCA through to an AV receiver?
- Based on my understanding using Line-in results in the iDSD acting as an AMP only.
 

To me, decent solid state amps and dacs sound way, way more similar than different, amps generally have very linear frequency response that have little audible difference in tone within the range of human hearing, and so I personally question any description that begins with "very."

 
Thanks cel4145 I guess from reading the varying opinions on DAPs/DACs I have started believing that the Wolfson WM8740 DAC is warm while the Sabre ES9018 is analytical and more neutral. And based on opinion it almost seems like significant differences exist. I'm glad you say that DACs sound way, way more similar than different. I'll keep this in mind when auditioning too.
 
Cheers
Dhruv

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
I did understand this from the article. My questions arise from the lack of a clear understanding on which circuits get used by the iDSD depending on the input/output choices.
 
- (I believe) Using USB input uses all circuits (especially USB purifier and DAC)

 
Yes I think that's how it works - basically it can also take USB input then output the audio through SPDIF.
 

Originally Posted by Danzas123 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
- (Question) Using SPDIF input does this utilise the DAC, XBass, 3D circuits when outputting via RCA? 
  - If so then I am sorted and I will buy a DAP with COAX out.
- Are there any negatives to using RCA through to an AV receiver?

 
It's just not as optimal. If anything they run them through their own ADC in some cases so they can rout the signal through the DSP (which handles for example subwoofer crossovers), but some have a direct mode to the amp.
 
 

 
- Based on my understanding using Line-in results in the iDSD acting as an AMP only.

 
You mean RCA input into the iDSD? It's only labelled as "output," not sure if it works like the coax. If you mean coax (since that is technically also an RCA coaxial) then the iDSD's DAC also works.

 

[Danzas123]

 
You mean RCA input into the iDSD? It's only labelled as "output," not sure if it works like the coax. If you mean coax (since that is technically also an RCA coaxial) then the iDSD's DAC also works.

With this I meant the 3.5mm Line-input which is on the front panel of the iDSD, that I believe allows one to only use the amp of the iDSD and not the DAC.
 
 

 
Yes I think that's how it works - basically it can also take USB input then output the audio through SPDIF.

So when it takes the USB input then outputs the audio through SPDIF which circuits does this engage? I'm assuming the analogue circuits like XBass and 3D are not utilised when outputting via SPDIF?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  With this I meant the 3.5mm Line-input which is on the front panel of the iDSD, that I believe allows one to only use the amp of the iDSD and not the DAC.

 
3.5mm is TRS, not RCA...
 

 
So when it takes the USB input then outputs the audio through SPDIF which circuits does this engage? I'm assuming the analogue circuits like XBass and 3D are not utilised when outputting via SPDIF?
 

 
It should go through since the USB input just means you start out using the DAC, and I'm not sure if it's an entirely "analogue" circuit. It could be hardware but works in digital form, like how A/V receivers, car audio receivers and processors have a hardware DSP chip that can do the processing before running the signal through the DAC. You'll have to ask iFi to be sure - there's no clear answer on the product blurb.

 

[Danzas123]

Hi cel4145,
 
I went to audition the DX50 and DX90 at a local store and I came away impressed with both units with the SQ. The only gripes with the DX50 is the little hiss when not playing music which is non-existent on the DX90. I disagree with those calling this a "very warm" sounding unit. I would not call it flavoured either, if anything the DX50 has a dry sound and yes you're not getting as much detail but still great for the money.
 
I'm still leaning toward the DX90 as this has the metallic rings around all jacks that should help the life of the unit, the detailed sound and sheer power to drive even power hungry headphones. I won't require it for power hungry headphones in any case. I'm just impressed by both the units.
 
My small gripe with both units though is the screen quality is not really amazing. Especially with smartphones getting up to 2K displays the 320x240 pixel leaves more to be desired. The only counter to this it's not like you're going to stare at the screen to view album art. So it's good enough and if it saves battery then that's a good thing in a way.
 
Mass drop has the DX90 available for USD329.99 which is 90 dollars off MSRP. In Australia the local store I visited was charging $650 which is a bit steep compared to the mass drop where I could have it delivered to my house for AUD440. 
 
So to wrap things up, I'm most likely going to order a DX90. CAN anyone else recommend anything different?
 
Thanks for the help. I will post once I get the gear how this all matches up. I think that the GR07 BE with my limited listening sounded great with the DX90.

 

[Danzas123]

Hi all
 
I received the DX90 a few weeks ago and have been allowing it to burn-in as stated on the forums... apparently requiring 400 hours. Sometimes I use the burn-in cable provided and at other times I plug in the GR07 BEs and let them burn in too. I've been able to enjoy a wide variety of music on the DX90 and I'm loving the sound quality. It's like using desktop/home theatre equipment with the full detail separation, sound stage, imaging, clarity and neutral bass, mid and treble response. I love being able to hear so much 'more' music and I think this is a worthy investment for anyone.
 
Paired with the ATH-M50s and GR07s I have enjoyed the sound coming out of this little DAP. I have a Samsung i9300 battery installed now which I found smoothed out the sound, for me personally reducing a little sibilance due to the GR07 BEs tending to be only slightly sibilant. It's great to have a company like iBasso out there producing such quality gear.
 
I was doubtful at one stage reading a few less than stellar reviews of the DX90. I can say my doubts have been put to rest as the quality of the product is definitely worth the price being asked. The noise floor is inaudible and it's really pleasant turning on the device with the volume turned high with not a single bit of hiss.
 
I will write up a full review with more detail once I feel confident I have formed an objective view of the DAP.
 
I'm still waiting for the iFi micro iDSD which is undelivered due to a stuff up by the company I ordered from. Overall I feel this will only enhance the overall experience.
 
Cheers to all for reading and for making recommendations.

 

[cel4145]

Great. Glad you are enjoying it. I like my DX50, but I don't use it with very sensitive IEMs, so no hiss problem for me. But I wouldn't mind upgrading to the DX90 one day

 

[Danzas123]

Oh definitely a worthy upgrade from the DX50 to the DX90 

. It's got a lot of power and a really low noise floor. I believe that is part of the reason for having dual-mono DAC vs single-stereo DAC, at least from reading about the iFi micro the reason they have dual DAC design is to reduce noise floor vs the nano, and again the verdict is that the sound is improved.
 
Happy listening