A step up from a smartphone... what to get?

[mellio]

I currently do most of my music listening from a Sony Xperia Z3c, FLAC files played through the Walkman or Neutron apps. I got some nice IEM headphones for it but they croaked after two days. Until I hear from the manufacturer and they offer a replacement I'm back to my cheap and nearly acceptable Griffin Woodtones.
If I were to upgrade from that setup on a budget of ~$200, I've considered several possibilities but nothing could not come to a decision, as I have no options to test gear from a store, friends etc. ... The three main options are to 1) adjunct an headphone amp to the phone in order to get the most out of the nice IEMs; 2) add a DAC/amp to the phone; 3) replacement with a dedicated DAP.
For 1) Fiio products would seem a safe choice; is it fair to say only something in the $100-140 price range will bring an improvement over the Sony's amp or would something cheaper work?
For 2), is that option even worth considering in my budget, in terms of improvements over the Sony's own DAC and amp?
For 3), the Fiio X3 II looks interesting. It has a powerful amp, but then it seems some people seem are adding amps to their X3s. Is the outside amp a necessary upgrade? Also, I was wondering about the difference in SQ with a good (audio-wise) smartphone like the Z3: is it subtle, noticeable, substantial or a night-and-day kind of comparison? Many thanks!

 

[cel4145]

No. An outside amp is not a necessary upgrade to a Fiio X3. The X3's amp will do very well powering IEMs you might purchase. For that matter, the FiiO X1 has plenty of power for IEMs.

I have no experience with your phone, so I don't know for certain what kind of improvement a DAP would offer. Whether or not a different smart phone or DAP would over " subtle, noticeable, substantial or a night-and-day kind of comparison" is very much a subjective thing that depends on the listener. However, I think it could certainly be worth a try ordering the Fiio X1 from somewhere with a good RMA policy and see what you think

 

[Feilong4]

I don't have any Fiio DAPs, but I do have a Xperia Z3V which I guess is similar to the compact.
 
I would just leave it all to practicality and what headphones you will be using with them.
 
If you will be using IEMs with low ohms and high sensitivity, then I would just recommend sticking to the phone as it will play the IEMs well enough.
 
In terms of practicality, are you willing to fit a DAP and a phone in both of your pockets? I'm assuming you will be carrying the phone everywhere you go along with the said DAP. Unless you carry a backpack and put the phone in the backpack, I don't find it at all too practical.
 
You could also check out the Xperia Z3 Audio Quality thread -> http://www.head-fi.org/t/737108/sony-xperia-z3-audio-quality
 
(I'm assuming Sony used the same dac and amp for the Xperia Z3 line of smartphones)
 
But that's just what I think.
 
PS: or like cel4145 said, you could purchase the Fiio X1 and see if there IS a difference then you could report back to us (as I was thinking maybe of getting a Fiio X1 due to a faulty connection with my Xperia Z3V :/)

 

[mellio]

Thanks for the replies, I guess it will wait until after the summer anyway, by then I'll have a better idea of what the z3 is like with really good earphones. So apparently a phone + external amp/dac isn't too practical - I suspected as much. I'm really curious about the upcoming units from Audioquest and RHA though. Was quite interested too in the Sony A15 DAP. I might try to get a Fiio for trial but return policies are not as easy here in Europe in general.

I would gladly do it otherwise, other than the fact that flipping gear was easier when I wasn't married

 

[Tail]

  I currently do most of my music listening from a Sony Xperia Z3c, FLAC files played through the Walkman or Neutron apps. I got some nice IEM headphones for it but they croaked after two days. Until I hear from the manufacturer and they offer a replacement I'm back to my cheap and nearly acceptable Griffin Woodtones.
If I were to upgrade from that setup on a budget of ~$200, I've considered several possibilities but nothing could not come to a decision, as I have no options to test gear from a store, friends etc. ... The three main options are to 1) adjunct an headphone amp to the phone in order to get the most out of the nice IEMs; 2) add a DAC/amp to the phone; 3) replacement with a dedicated DAP.
For 1) Fiio products would seem a safe choice; is it fair to say only something in the $100-140 price range will bring an improvement over the Sony's amp or would something cheaper work?
For 2), is that option even worth considering in my budget, in terms of improvements over the Sony's own DAC and amp?
For 3), the Fiio X3 II looks interesting. It has a powerful amp, but then it seems some people seem are adding amps to their X3s. Is the outside amp a necessary upgrade? Also, I was wondering about the difference in SQ with a good (audio-wise) smartphone like the Z3: is it subtle, noticeable, substantial or a night-and-day kind of comparison? Many thanks!

I have heard my friends Z3 and I own FiiO X3 and had Astell & Kern AK100 (but also heard all FiiO products except X3 II and X5 II, and Astell & Kern AK120) so I'm suggesting from my personal experience:
 
Don't buy anything except earphones as upgrade to those that you already have. 
 
You will gain nothing or extremely small improvement. Especially if you are using some in ears that usually have very low impedance and are decently/very sensitive. So save up some money and seek for the amp only when you have headphones that require it. DAP is a nice thing for several reasons, one of which is the same reason as the amp (because it is more powerful than smartphone) and other is if you need the player (like I did, for the gym and for studying, didn't want any kind of distraction from smartphone so I bought a player) but it won't open you new horizons since audio is actually pretty decent in most today's smartphones, whether it is iPhone or Z3.

 

[mellio]

Thanks Tail, that's very interesting to know! So I'll just stay put for the moment. Must have been a case of premature "upgraditis"on my part due to some frustrations with my setup. In the past few months I've been catching up fast on everything digital audio, making a few mistakes along the way, since getting the z3 which I chose based on reviews on head-fi among others - primarily for its audio quality. I have a fairly long commute and want to take advantage of that time for some quality listening which isn't always possible at home.
 
Before that I'd had some iPods which I never liked and invariably stopped using after a few weeks. I didn't like the sound of smartphones (two HTCs in my case) before the z3. So I wasn't a believer in mobile audio and until recently most of my listening was from good old CDs on my home system, and more recently my computer through the AD interface of my Yamaha THR guitar amp (which is actually pretty decent). After getting the z3, it took me time to get wise on CD ripping and get the process right, and then to wake up to the importance of good earphones. When I finally got those, a few more days passed until I realized the importance of a good fit, and then it was audio bliss, until after only  a few hours, I started hearing some crackling noises and SQ went really bad suddenly !! (the manufacturer will probably send a new pair). That prompted all sorts of questions: could the issue have been with the z3 - maybe it's not powerful enough to drive some IEMs? worse, maybe a component inside the phone was damaged? maybe it was silly to expect a phone to do everything and I should just get a dedicated player etc. But I did some tests and it was the headphones most probably. Sorry about the rambling, and thanks again.

 

[Tail]

  I didn't like the sound of smartphones (two HTCs in my case) before the z3.
 
 
That prompted all sorts of questions: could the issue have been with the z3 - maybe it's not powerful enough to drive some IEMs? worse, maybe a component inside the phone was damaged? maybe it was silly to expect a phone to do everything and I should just get a dedicated player etc.

 
About HTC... I had One X and it was bad, there was a lot of background hiss and there were some distortions when I cranked volume to 90% or higher, but my Nexus 5 actually sounded very good, no hiss at all and only a bit distortions on maximum volume tho I rarely listened to it above 80-90% so that was no problem for me. 
Thing is my sound card and output from PC was really bad with a lot of hiss and all kinds of noises so I needed something to use as an external dac/amp and I needed something for studying and gym, so I got FiiO X3 (first it was AK100 but it was disaster of a player for so many reasons so I settled with X3). If I didn't have those reasons, based on sound quality alone I honestly wouldn't even buy it. So audio quality wise I find Nexus 5 to be on the par with X3 (same for Z3 I've heard from my friend) but it has more powerful amp so it can drive some harder to drive headphones/earphones better.
 
Which IEMs are you using with Z3? If they have let's say 32 ohm or less impedance (mine have 16 ohm only, Sennheiser IE80) and if they are fairly sensitive (let's say 100+ dB SPL for example, mine are at 125 dB) I'm quite sure Z3 can drive them very well, and Z3 has decent audio quality really. 
 
Problems you have mentioned I have no idea what could it be, I doubt it's the smartphone's fault but it is possible of course, did you try some other earphones/headphones with your Z3? 
 
But in general my advice is not to get amp or dedicated player unless you actually need it (for example some hard to drive headphones or the reasons similar to mine...). Many people go for dedicated player and those external amps and dacs just for the sake of hobby, psychological satisfaction that you have some "audiophile" serious gear, like you said  "upgraditis"   while the truth actually is that it might not even make any difference, or at best very small one

 

[mellio]

Actually I didn't mention which earphones in order not to compromise the manufacturer, a small brand that generally get great reviews for their products and also their customer service - and sure enough, they responded within hours. Unless they find nothing wrong after testing, they will send a replacement. So going by your indications the specs say 16 ohm and 100dB which should be ok. Testing the Z3 with other phones, several times several hours apart, everything sounded normal which was a relief.

 

[Tail]

  Actually I didn't mention which earphones in order not to compromise the manufacturer, a small brand that generally get great reviews for their products and also their customer service - and sure enough, they responded within hours. Unless they find nothing wrong after testing, they will send a replacement. So going by your indications the specs say 16 ohm and 100dB which should be ok. Testing the Z3 with other phones, several times several hours apart, everything sounded normal which was a relief.

16 Ohm 100 dB SPL I don't think you need to worry at all when it comes to Z3 as a player, especially if you have tested it and compared it with others so you are sure it's not faulty. When they fix it and return it please say which earphone is it, now I'm so curious!   

 

[RonaldDumsfeld]

A step up from a smartphone... what to get?

 
A better smartphone first. Then a better set of headphones/earphones.
 
Check out this series of iphone audio reviews. Compares very well to Audioengine D3, the Dragonfly and TEAC UD501 ......
 
http://archimago.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/measurements-apple-iphone-4-iphone-6.html
 
Only one device to carry around, charge and risk losing or breaking. Result.

 

[mellio]

On a z3 audio quality thread here it was argued the z3 was better than the iPhone 6. I don't want to get into that fight though I've never liked any Apple product over the years or the Apple environment so I wouldn't consider it. And I don't understand the $300 premium for half the storage space. The tests you mention say a lot about how far smartphones have come though. Amazing!

 

[god-bluff]

There is no better smartphone than the Z3 Compact IMO. it's just replaced my NWZ A15 (as well as my malfunctioning Moto X) as I can hear little difference and has same features as a music player . A superb semi compact phone .

 

[god-bluff]

Should add I'm satisfied using Sonys own Mh1c and the noise cancelling NC31 when out and about. Using the presets for these phones it was designed for.

Grados sound great straight out of it at home and it's got just about enough power for my Focal Spirits.

Like the A15 low on power high on quality in terms of internal components no need for dac/amp if you choose headphones wisely imo

 

[mellio]

Well having sorted out various issue since my OP I could not be happier with the Z3c. I bought it initially for its claimed audio qualities and it has surpassed all my expectations. My first issue was I didn't have a good enough pair of headphones and took a while to understand how important that can be. I couldn't find the mh1c where I live and got some mdr-ex650 which I would fully recommend. I'm looking forward to another, higher-end set of IEMs from a different manufacturer, unfortunately the initial pair developed an issue after only a few hours of use, and I'm still waiting for the replacement set to arrive from the manufacturer. But just with the ex650s the z3c sounds great.
 
My second issue was learning about file formats and learning to rip properly, testing different softwares and settling on dbpoweramp, which I found to be superior to EAC. Even with downloaded files, I now download the WMAs from Qobuz, and convert them to FLAC myself using dbpoweramp, which I found to sound better than the FLACs from Qobuz. Great experience overall. Thanks for sharing.

 

[god-bluff]

Get the Qobuz app and you can download all your purchases directly on to the phone including Flac and of course Hires if you have or get any. Brilliant