[milesandcoltrane]

I've tried the JH13 universal demo before this.

In my first audition I was absolutely blown away, floored by the natural balanced sound and all the details which were jumping out at me. Since then I was dead set on getting the JH13 custom, despite the fact that it was quite a bit above my budget.

Since then I've been having a hard time coming to terms with my impending purchase. So to lay it to rest, today I went for another audition. And I was quite disappointed sadly.

The first time around it was through headphone out of my Macbook Pro, this most recent audition was through the headphone out of iPhone 3Gs then later from the iPhone out to a Pico. The Pico definitely helped improved things but it wasn't as I remembered it to me from the first time around.

Could it be because I've gotten used to the impressive sound that now I'm no longer wowed. I'm having a hard time coming to terms with the fact that I'd be spending so much.

I also had a chance to A/B the HD600 with the JH13. (JH13: iPhone 3Gs > Pico, HD600: iPhone 3Gs > Linearossa K3) and felt the JH13 edged the HD600 in terms of details by a wide margin. (I also remembered liking the HD600 more from the Maverick Audio, so this comparison might not be very fair). Clarity was with the JH13, but the HD600 definitely had presence given its a headphone.

On the other hand when I first listened to the ATH-ESW10JPN I was moderately impressed, and the more I got to listen to it (a friend's cans) the more they grew on me. The details, the mids, the bottom-end, everything is there and presented so nicely.

The HD600 has been a favourite for a long time, just that I never got around to buying one because of DAC and Amp requirements. The HD600 was smoother than the ESW10JPN but lost out in the details department. (HD600 was from a Maverick Audio D1 from my Macbook via USB, ESW10 direct from my Macbook Pro).

Should I still get the JH13? The reason I'm still considering them is because of the almost unanimous praise for them on head-fi. Is the custom version ALOT better than the universals? (I'll probably be posting this question in the jh13 thread but fwiw pls do include your inputs here)

Portability would be a bonus for me. It just means that I'd get more bang for the buck since I'd be using them alot more (out and about on the train, in the library, cafes etc). Isolation isn't that much of a requirement but again it would be a bonus.

So now its a toss up between the JH13, the ESW10JPN or the HD600 out of the Maverick D1. I'm also hoping to try out other full sized open cans. Whaddya guys think I should do?

 

[the search never ends]

ESW10 is a great can, I think it's better than the HD600, and never heard th JH13's.........You're right to audition more cans.
Let me ask that you go back again soon, and relisten to the JH13's though. We have our days, At least I do and every audiophile I know does. Some days your hearing is just not the same, it is actually claimed to vary even day to day. If your initial impressions were good, many factors come on to play. I can tell you that your reluctance to spend that much on them, can make you hear different all on it''s own. Others may disagree, But I believe your mind can make you see, hear, and do things, more so than your ears.
Listen with an open mind. My 2 cents

 

[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milesandcoltrane /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've tried the JH13 universal demo before this. So now its a toss up between the JH13, the ESW10JPN or the HD600 out of the Maverick D1. I'm also hoping to try out other full sized open cans. Whaddya guys think I should do?

If you haven't heard the K701s through the D1, give them a try. I thought they had good synergy together.

Mine is a Silver Dragon-cabled K701 with the NOS factory upgraded tube on the D1.

I thought my HD600s were a bit on the bright side with the D1, I felt the same about the ESW9s.

Always wanted to try the JH13s and the ESW10s though, haven't yet

 

[prone2phone]

in my little experience, full size cans produce more natural sound waves? or something, despite iems can be crisper, but it only is obviuos in direct comparison

 

[milesandcoltrane]

thesearchneverends (like your name btw haha): yeah something might be up with my ears and mind, and of course the very thought of spending a grand on earphones brrr... and not being able to resell them makes me shudder... on the other hand if the jh13 ends my search (couldn't help it =) ) then i'd be ok with spending that much, then again in this industry new stuff always comes up and my bank account would end up in the bushes if i keep up with new developments. (and yeah i do think the esw10jpn is superior to the hd600, but then again my experience with the 600 has been limited to a very small bunch of low to mid end amps).

grokit: yeah the other cans I've been wanting to try are the K701. they might be up my alley given my penchant for almost listening to jazz exclusively. but opinions tend to be quite divided on these cans. i guess only listening can help uncover my opinion of them. the other cans that i tried before were the dt880. loved them quite a bit, but somehow sibilance seemed to be an issue. and at that point in time i wasn't read to lay the dough for a dedicated amp. but now i am.

prone2phone: yeah I still think full sized cans produced a more natural sound when compared to IEMs but all this talk about JH13s getting on the level of top end cans has gotten me a little hot under the collar wondering if the jh13 could be by be-all-end-all solutions where great sound is concerned.

 

[Nakattack]

Grokit, what are your opinions on the D1 being able to power the K701's sufficiently? I'm not talking about loudness, more quality of sound. Also, how did it compare with your other amps in driving the 701's?

 

[Szadzik]

I understand your thoughts about JH13. They get really great reviews and all.

TBH, the first thing I did was a price comparison. I see JH13 at $1000 and ESW10JPN at $599.

Now my question is: Is JH13 2x better than ESW10JPN which is a great can? IMHO not.

 

[Junliang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Szadzik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand your thoughts about JH13. They get really great reviews and all. TBH, the first thing I did was a price comparison. I see JH13 at $1000 and ESW10JPN at $599. Now my question is: Is JH13 2x better than ESW10JPN which is a great can? IMHO not.

Erm, How long have you been in this audio "world" ?
I believe a person with 200- post should know that price != performance

 

[Mochan]

I generally find that IEMs are better for detail and clarity, but that they don't deliver the same kind of sound as a full-sized can. I started off mostly with IEMs but recently I've been selling off my IEMs (only kept the TF10 and the VModa Vibe) and been collecting larger cans lately. I've started to have an appreciation for larger cans.

 

[milesandcoltrane]

Yeah detail is alot better for iems. It's e kinda thing that makes u go wow. But in a day to day listening scenario the whole package matters. And that's e reason I'm so fond of full siZed cans cuz they do so many things right.

From what alot of people said here apparently the jh13 is good enough to be used in the same manner as full sized cans I.e. For dedicated listening at home. That was e only reason I started considering them in the first place. I don't need e best sq when I'm out and about cuz for me at least in a portable situation much of e sq is either lost or can't be appreciated.

And of course e law of dimnishing returns. After the first jh13 audition when I was enamored with them I realised why spending so much for that last 10 or 20 % makes sense. Because perfection is so sweet. But after the audition today I'm starting to doubt my reasoning. Honestly after u go beyond crappy earbuds to semi decent cans like the 7506 I have now the differences slowly start to become smaller n smaller. Though the 7506 I have right now has serious problems like e harsh gritty treble.

 

[Mochan]

One thing about IEMs is that they are generally harder to listen to for long periods of time. Having a seal means all the details go to your head and you get lots of bass in there, but generally I find it uncomfortable to use IEMs for long periods of time, and my ears do get sore. The most comfy IEM I have owned, the VModa Vibe, I can use for hours but even that gets my ears kind of sore.

On the other hand you have full cans that are comfy to wear all day long (assuming they are comfy to begin with). I generally find IEMs superior to closed cans around the $100-$150 range but lately I've been moving to open cans and more expensive cans and I'm finding that they are more satisfying than my IEMs, even expensive IEMs like the TF10 (which I have) and the IE8, which I've tried out on many occasions.

Still trying to decide upon my next acquisitions, will probably get either an HD580, an SR226, a K701, an AD700, or a combination of these.

I've been using mostly closed, bassy cans and IEMs for the "early years" of my audiophilia and I'm pretty bad at listening for soundstage. But I've found that even the widest soundstages I've heard on IEMs (Vibe and IE8) are like only on par with my DT770 which is a closed can. Aiming to own a nice, wide open can like the Air or the K701 so I can learn to really appreciate big soundstage, or HD580 for that really deep soundstage. I've only heard the K701 and the HD580 out of those candidates of mine but I was amazed at how the HD580 "threw" the sound forward away form my head. No IEM has managed to do that for me. I don't remember the K701 too well and its apparent "super spacious sound" and when I listened to it it wasn't properly amped so I have fuzzy memories of how it sounded, and it didn't sound all that good at the time.

 

[grokit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nakattack /img/forum/go_quote.gif Grokit, what are your opinions on the D1 being able to power the K701's sufficiently? I'm not talking about loudness, more quality of sound. Also, how did it compare with your other amps in driving the 701's?

In general, I found that the "hotter" less-expensive hybrid tube amps like the D1 and my Indeed Hybrid could sound a bit "bright" with certain headphones, like my HD600s and ESW9s. But the K701s didn't have this problem, they seemed to have more "space" at the high end, reducing perceived sharpness and increasing synergy with this type of amp (YMMV).

I used the D1 mostly for a pre-amp and DAC, but did spend some quality time with the headphone out when I had it; it's a very capable unit IMO, definitely no problem with volume. I keep the K701s to use with the Indeed, which has many of the same sonic characteristics as the D1, IMO.

I think that the laid-back qualities of the K701 mesh well with the overall forwardness of the D1 (and the Indeed), if that makes any sense at all. Good luck!

 

[gilency]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mochan /img/forum/go_quote.gif One thing about IEMs is that they are generally harder to listen to for long periods of time. Having a seal means all the details go to your head and you get lots of bass in there, but generally I find it uncomfortable to use IEMs for long periods of time, and my ears do get sore. The most comfy IEM I have owned, the VModa Vibe, I can use for hours but even that gets my ears kind of sore.

Custom IEM's disappear in your ears. I can listen to my ES3X all day long. I suspect most people with custom IEM's will agree with me.

 

[Szadzik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junliang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Erm, How long have you been in this audio "world" ? I believe a person with 200- post should know that price != performance

I am new new here, agreed. Does that mean anything? No.

My question was, whether you get so much more with JH13 over ESW10JPN by doubling the price. I meant that doubling the price does not double the performance and I think that is what you wanted to say, but misunderstood me

 

[3X0]

I was very fond of the HD 650 even though I acquired them after my JH13s. I don't believe full-size headphones like the HD 650 are easily comparable to something like the JH13s since they differ so vastly in presentation and just the way they put out sound.

As I've gradually upgraded my components, I noticed that the JH13 improved more than my full-size headphones did. This was a surprise because the JH13 was already superior in most sonic respects, so I wasn't expecting them to have more headroom for improvement. But they do.

I've long since sold my HD 650, but really the only advantage a full-size headphone (one that's not of the highest caliber that is) will have against the JH13 is in the presentation style they have, where psychoacoustics enable sounds to appear to emerge from outside your head. This type of presentation is better done by speakers so I've decided to forgo full-size headphones for that reason. I've realized that the "headstage" of the JH13 is mostly perfect anyway; imaging and spatialization is accurate and precise, honest to the recording. I've since considered the lack of a bona fide "soundstage" in the JH13s to be not a weakness, but instead perhaps one of its greatest strengths. The JH13 is quite free of colorations and perfectly interprets and assumes the spatialization of the recording, where full-size headphones generally have a consistent soundstage (i.e. the on-stage Grados, the concert-hall Sennheisers) and are quite colored/distorted (i.e. those Grado mids, Audio-Technica vocals).