[bhanja_trinanjan]

Hi,
                I posted a very detailed review of the AKG K702 and Burson HA-160 at
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/494554/review-burson-headphone-amp-160-and-akg-k702-combo
 
That is as much a headphone review as it is an amplifier review, so I decided to mention it here as a separate thread.
 
Hope that everybody enjoys reading it!

 

[David.M]

We're sorry, there has been an error in the system =\

 

[bhanja_trinanjan]

Quote:

We're sorry, there has been an error in the system =\

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/494554/review-burson-headphone-amp-160-and-akg-k702-combo
 
Does it work now?

 

[David.M]

Yeah, I read it.
 
It was a well done review. Kinda wondering why nobody commented in the amp section.... maybe it's dead over there?

 
You mentioned the Burson Headphone amp's bass was head-shaking/musical whilst still retaining all of its details? . Woa... Woa... Woa... AKG's being dynamical? somebody grab me the strongest Bacardi there is  cause this just can't be true ^_^

 

[Acix]

Quote:

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/494554/review-burson-headphone-amp-160-and-akg-k702-combo
 
Does it work now?

Yes, much better now. Thanks a lot for this great detailed review.

 

[bhanja_trinanjan]

 
Quote:

Yeah, I read it.
 
It was a well done review. Kinda wondering why nobody commented in the amp section.... maybe it's dead over there?

 
You mentioned the Burson Headphone amp's bass was head-shaking/musical whilst still retaining all of its details? . Woa... Woa... Woa... AKG's being dynamical? somebody grab me the strongest Bacardi there is  cause this just can't be true ^_^

LOL... It is truly dead in the amps section!
 
It seems that you are not a K70x fan... not that you are alone... as the K70x are a mixed bag with a very interesting mix of + and -.
 
But, trust me, I have never found the K702 to lack bass or mid-bass. Yes, the bass/mid-bass could be louder, but the quality of the bass and the control is exceptional... I like it

 
Properly juiced, the AKGs can be really nice dynamically!

 
Quote:

Yes, much better now. Thanks a lot for this great detailed review.

Glad that you liked it.

 

[lejaz]

Many thanks for your interesting reviews of the k702. In fact I decided to try them myself in part due to reading your first review. Well, I'm glad that I'm not the only one hearing a problem with the mid range. What you wrote about the clarinet echos my own perceptions in recent listening sessions, though I noticed it with trumpet, saxophone, and piano, and I quote from your review:.
 
Quote:

 

Wieniawski Violin Concerto… is the midrange good enough?
 
The clarinet that plays along with the violin from 00:35 to 00:38 lacks the sweet prominence and presence that it has on my Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 stand-mounts. At 00:38, the clarinet just disappears meekly on the K702, whereas it bows out with ear-filling lushness on the Wharfedale. <end quote>
 
I recently listened to a favorite jazz tune that has a great soulful piano introduction. With the k702 it sounds like the piano was mixed too far back relative to the other instruments. It's just not right to my ears. However with my other headphones it sounds just the way it should. This particular album was produced by a very well regarded engineer for Blue Note records, I think, so I doubt he would mix it the way it sounds with the k702. On another jazz tune I listened to earlier today the cymbals are just way too forward. It's not like I'm sitting in the front row of a club...it's like I'm sitting with my ear a couple of inches from the ride cymbal!  I can't imagine mixing a song like that, and this tune and cymbals in general sound more balanced with the k240DF and other headphones. I think this is probably due to the upper mid peak you wrote of. I could go on with more examples of sax and trumpet (Miles Davis' trumpet being too distant, for instance) but I want to do some more extensive listening first to get accustomed to their particular sound sig. BTW, I'm loving the bass with the k702....very realistic and quite enough quantity for my taste.

 

[bhanja_trinanjan]

 
Quote:

Many thanks for your interesting reviews of the k702. In fact I decided to try them myself in part due to reading your first review. Well, I'm glad that I'm not the only one hearing a problem with the mid range. What you wrote about the clarinet echos my own perceptions in recent listening sessions, though I noticed it with trumpet, saxophone, and piano, and I quote from your review:.
 
Wieniawski Violin Concerto… is the midrange good enough?
 
The clarinet that plays along with the violin from 00:35 to 00:38 lacks the sweet prominence and presence that it has on my Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 stand-mounts. At 00:38, the clarinet just disappears meekly on the K702, whereas it bows out with ear-filling lushness on the Wharfedale. <end quote>
 
I recently listened to a favorite jazz tune that has a great soulful piano introduction. With the k702 it sounds like the piano was mixed too far back relative to the other instruments. It's just not right to my ears. However with my other headphones it sounds just the way it should. This particular album was produced by a very well regarded engineer for Blue Note records, I think, so I doubt he would mix it the way it sounds with the k702. On another jazz tune I listened to earlier today the cymbals are just way too forward. It's not like I'm sitting in the front row of a club...it's like I'm sitting with my ear a couple of inches from the ride cymbal!  I can't imagine mixing a song like that, and this tune and cymbals in general sound more balanced with the k240DF and other headphones. I think this is probably due to the upper mid peak you wrote of. I could go on with more examples of sax and trumpet (Miles Davis' trumpet being too distant, for instance) but I want to do some more extensive listening first to get accustomed to their particular sound sig. BTW, I'm loving the bass with the k702....very realistic and quite enough quantity for my taste.

 
Hello Lejaz,
                You are right! This distant and lean character in the midrange is the only gripe I have with the K70x. It does not affect all recordings uniformly, but when it does, it becomes a real botheration and prevents the music from engaging my soul.
 
I also feel that the K70X have adequate bass for classical. I just feel surprised when people shout their voices hoarse on ‘Where the hell is the bass?’
The AKG certainly has some of the tightest and well controlled bass for classical. I have heard many systems with more bass… but not with the iron fisted grip that the AKG has on the proceedings low down.
 
For me, the AKG has a slightly smaller than life and skeletal low mid and mid… and it is here than the good work is undone… Fix that and we have an outstanding headphone.

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

Hello Lejaz,
                You are right! This distant and lean character in the midrange is the only gripe I have with the K70x. It does not affect all recordings uniformly, but when it does, it becomes a real botheration and prevents the music from engaging my soul.

For me, the AKG has a slightly smaller than life and skeletal low mid and mid… and it is here than the good work is undone… Fix that and we have an outstanding headphone.

They already did fix it, 30 years ago.  It's called the K400.  If you paid 400$ for one, and it said K801 on the side, you'd think you died and went to heaven.  They just unfixed it when they couldn't think of anything else to do to it aside from marketing pizaz, and so they tweaked it for more bass and treble and mucked everything up. 

 

[bhanja_trinanjan]

 
Quote:

They already did fix it, 30 years ago.  It's called the K400.  If you paid 400$ for one, and it said K801 on the side, you'd think you died and went to heaven.  They just unfixed it when they couldn't think of anything else to do to it aside from marketing pizaz, and so they tweaked it for more bass and treble and mucked everything up. 

And maybe soundstage?

 
Interestingly, Headroom graphs show the K702 to be nearly flat across the midrange... although graphs should be taken with a pinch of salt, I do not feel that the midrange is truly flat or reference quality.
 
Another interesting question here... how did the much praised K1000 fair in this area? And which in-production headphone retains and builds on the positive aspects of the K702 and fixes that leanness in the midrange?

 

[VALIENTE]

Congratulations [size=x-small]Trinanjan Bhanja![/size] I have read your review from 6moons.com
Keep it up Sir!

 

[lejaz]

 
Quote:

 
 
Hello Lejaz,
                You are right! This distant and lean character in the midrange is the only gripe I have with the K70x. It does not affect all recordings uniformly, but when it does, it becomes a real botheration and prevents the music from engaging my soul.
 
I also feel that the K70X have adequate bass for classical. I just feel surprised when people shout their voices hoarse on ‘Where the hell is the bass?’
The AKG certainly has some of the tightest and well controlled bass for classical. I have heard many systems with more bass… but not with the iron fisted grip that the AKG has on the proceedings low down.
 
For me, the AKG has a slightly smaller than life and skeletal low mid and mid… and it is here than the good work is undone… Fix that and we have an outstanding headphone.

You make a couple of more good points. Yes, it doesn't affect all recordings uniformly. I've noticed it with a couple of vocal performances, but not others. Jazz tenor saxophone will sometimes exhibit this 'hollow' sound in the mids. I went back and forth last night between the k702 and the 240DF, and with acoustic jazz, the DF mids sounded more lifelike...and more engaging. On one tune as soon as I switched from the 702 back to the DF I immediately felt a big "YES"! This is coming from a semi professional musician who's been around live music for a whole lot of years. I also agree with your assessment of the bass. As I wrote in another thread, the way they do acoustic jazz bass alone is almost worth the price of admission. I can't see any problem with the bass...acoustic bass is perfect...not lacking in volume/level at all. For electronic bass and hip hop kick drum they may not hit low and hard enough, but I'm no expert there. I welcome any more impressions on this issue of the 702 mids... bass and treble, too, for that matter. Hopefully we can keep the thread going without any personal attacks. A lot of this like and dislike is purely subjective after all. I can see how a lot of folks might like more bass in their music and others less...some like chocolate, and some prefer vanilla.

 

[bhanja_trinanjan]

 
Quote:

 
You make a couple of more good points. Yes, it doesn't affect all recordings uniformly. I've noticed it with a couple of vocal performances, but not others. Jazz tenor saxophone will sometimes exhibit this 'hollow' sound in the mids. I went back and forth last night between the k702 and the 240DF, and with acoustic jazz, the DF mids sounded more lifelike...and more engaging. On one tune as soon as I switched from the 702 back to the DF I immediately felt a big "YES"! This is coming from a semi professional musician who's been around live music for a whole lot of years. I also agree with your assessment of the bass. As I wrote in another thread, the way they do acoustic jazz bass alone is almost worth the price of admission. I can't see any problem with the bass...acoustic bass is perfect...not lacking in volume/level at all. For electronic bass and hip hop kick drum they may not hit low and hard enough, but I'm no expert there. I welcome any more impressions on this issue of the 702 mids... bass and treble, too, for that matter. Hopefully we can keep the thread going without any personal attacks. A lot of this like and dislike is purely subjective after all. I can see how a lot of folks might like more bass in their music and others less...some like chocolate, and some prefer vanilla.

Fully agree! Let me see if I can upload some of my test tracks to Rapidshare/other service so that others can verify what I am hearing.

 

[lejaz]

Great...I've had good luck using dropbox.com

 

[bhanja_trinanjan]

Here we go!
 

 
http://rapidshare.com/files/393320817/05_Wieniawski_Violin_Concerto_No._2_-_II_-_Romance.mp3
 
https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/05%20Wieniawski%20Violin%20Concerto%20No.%202%20-%20II%20-%20Romance.mp3?w=a9d915b1
 
MP3 320 KBPS... though I listen to the CD
 
The woodwinds lack presence on the K702 with this track.