[hugz]

Hey all

my general philosophy for audio nowadays is to buy something sufficiently good that i wont be forced or tempted to upgrade any further.

So I have my eye on a (probably second hand) Rega P3 and am wondering
a) if it will be sufficient to not make me want to upgrade any further (after upgrading the cartridge etc)
b) if there is any other TT in the same pricerange that is better?

Secondly, if I was to purchase a rega p3 or other similarly priced TT, what cartridge would I be recommended to buy that would also not make me want to upgrade any further? and will i need to upgrade my tonearm too?

Basically I'm not looking for the best stuff ever, i'm just looking for something that is good enough that every time i turn it on i'll be happy with the sound and not wishing that it was better

I already have a tube phono amp. i will be mostly using it with horn speakers and with probably rock music or something like that

(for example, i know that the orpheus is much better than my hd580, but i'm perfectly happy with the hd580 every time i listen to them)

 

[ssportclay]

Technics 1200/1210 MKII
Rega 250/Origin Live OL-1 tonearm
Origin Live or Soundsupports armboard
Hagerman Bugle,(LM4562 in U3 socket) for those who need a Phono Stage
Audio Technica AT440MLa cartridge
2 Cinemag CMQEE-3440A transformers for those who use a low out MC cartridge.
Did you say no more upgrades? Ha! Ha! Ha! Not until my heart stops beating.

 

[memepool]

The problem with that is that the Rega P3 is an entry level turntable although it's ridiculously expensive nowadays. It was designed to comprehensively outperform all other budget turntables which it does admirably.

( Pro-Ject came along later to reflect that there was a lower gap in the market left by the fact that the Rega was getting more and more expensive before you ask.)

The Rega has the best budget arm you buy so you'd be unlikely to want to upgrade that although there are lots of small upgrades you can do, like to the wiring which is pretty bog standard.

As far as carts go some people seem to think that the Rega can handle a really high qaulity Moving Coil. The arm is certainly good enough but the other parts of the deck like the main bearing are a lot noisier than you get with a better deck so many of the subtleties confered by such an expensive transducer will be lost. I wouldn't go beyond a top MM like the Goldrin 1042GX or a basic MC like the Ortofon Rondo Red.


Ultimately you'll be fine with a Rega P3 unless you ever get to hear something two or three times better like a Linn LP12, or a Michell Gyro, Nottingham Spacedeck, Roksan Xerxes, VPI, Sota...etc etc.

To get anything approaching top level performance on your budget you'll need to take a basic deck like the Technics SL1200 and put a new arm on it or renovate an older rim drive like the Lenco L75.

Can't really think of a headphone analogy but going from a conventional capsule to an electrostatic would be one such leap although electrostatics don't really show their strengths with rock so that's probably not a very good one. More like going from earbuds to proper full range headphones would be more of an insight maybe as the Rega's are not exactly known for their frequency extremes.

 

[Ori]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Basically I'm not looking for the best stuff ever, i'm just looking for something that is good enough that every time i turn it on i'll be happy with the sound and not wishing that it was better

I like your practical philosophy!
If that's your first endeavour into vinyl then you have more basic decisions to make. Being practical, I chose the convenience of an auto-lift (or auto-stop) mechanism over the "ultimate". That's why I spin vinyl on a Sugden BD-2/A instead of my other TT, an Oracle Delphi with FR64/fxs tonearm. The BD2 is a bit more noisy but it has a lively character and with the right cartridge it just "sings". Since I bought it, I listen to a lot more vinyl thanks to that "life saving" auto-lift.

I like it so much that I bought another unit for backup and a friend sent me a third one when he got out of vinyl. I'm keeping them all!
If you're lucky you'll find one with the straight plinth instead of a box. Prices border on the ridiculously low...

 

[fran]

mm, undoubtedly the P3 is very good - but you will want to upgrade. One very good reason is that becuase these tables are so popular, there are loads of mods out there. Before long, you want a new weight for the tonearm, maybe a rewire, rejig the motor etc etc etc etc etc.... you get the pic here!

My 2c: spend a bit more and get a project rpm 5 (or whatever is the appropriate model # in the USA). Great TT, great looks, and I think beats a P3. Arm is also very good.

As far as a cartridge goes, something like a Denon DL110 or 160, is excellent. They work very well with the VSPS phonostage if you're up for some DIY (see thread on DIYaudio). However it will carry a much better cart if you do decide to go higher.

Fran

 

[fran]

OK, seems its RM5 in the US

http://www.sumikoaudio.net/project/products/rm5.htm

EDIT: saw you already had a phonostage, if its tube, is it MM only?

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fran /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, seems its RM5 in the US http://www.sumikoaudio.net/project/products/rm5.htm EDIT: saw you already had a phonostage, if its tube, is it MM only?

tube, MM and MC

Mods I am okay with. in fact, I enjoy modding something. I do not enjoy spending a big wad of cash on something only to be unhappy with it after a few months due to a glaring weakness, and be forced to upgrade

that pro-ject turntable is way good looking, so i'll look into them. along with everyone elses' recommendations to date

i guess for clarity i should point out that i'm not really intending vinyl to be my main source. I'm perfectly happy with my digital rig, however someone bought me a cheap turntable and now i must upgrade it because it has too many glaring weaknesses

PS i'm not american

 

[lini]

hugz: How's the used market for turntables down under? There are so many good oldies out there one could go for. E.g., quite a few of the old Duals are very good, especially the big direct drives like the 701, 704, 714Q, 721, 731Q... All of these 7xx-Duals can compete with other fine tables like a Thorens TD160 with TP16 arm both sonically and technically, but usually cost less... Many of 'em have Shure V15(II/III?)s mounted which still belong to the best MM catridges ever. If you're looking for a turntable equivalent to your HD 580, I could imagine you'd enjoy such a Dual...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[proglife]

I'm extremely pleased with my P3, but if you want a table that's not going to nag at you to upgrade, I'd get the P5 with the power supply upgrade. I always wonder about that little device. Wish I could run it with the P3.

 

[Bluetick]

My suggestion regarding the temptation for upgrade is to stop looking at audio gear for a while. Trust me, it helps. I find I must take these mini vactions of the mind in order to purge my senses of hype and marketing toxicity. During these leaves, I try to spend more time in music stores and in front of the system- just to keep me grounded in the hobby. I'm being totally serious.

My suggestion for a TT is to go for an older, well known classic. That way, you'll have a benchmark that you can set and forget. Look for something reliable, common, and decent sounding. My all-time favorite sleeper in the TT world is the Thorens TD147 (with TP16 mk2 arm). The 147 is an auto shut-off version of the well known TD160 Super. The 147 has all the features of the 160 Super including a 10mm bearing, factory sound damping, a thicker (MDF) bottom cover, among other things. I have owned several, and they beat out my (previously owned) Sota Sapphire, Linn dek, and 'Scout to name a few. The 147 benefits from an upgraded 16V power supply, a rewire, shelf mounting, and a twist in the belt. Two versions of the TP16 tonearm exist; depending on where the arm seperation is- it determines the max weight of the cart to be used. Dynamic
carts such as the Sumiko Blackbird or a Benz Micro are good matches, IMO.

The 147 should be common enough for you down under, but a slightly weakened American dollar should land you one on eBay for a fair price. They rarely tip the $300 mark. Carriage will be slightly high, but worth it. It has a fully locking platter/suspension assembly and a detachable tonearm so transport is a breeze- even for a ham-fisted noob.

Cheers!

 

[proglife]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluetick /img/forum/go_quote.gif During these leaves, I try to spend more time in music stores and in front of the system- just to keep me grounded in the hobby.

They don't have music stores on the Eastern Shore....I know, I'm there right now

 

[Bluetick]

Quote:

Originally Posted by proglife /img/forum/go_quote.gif They don't have music stores on the Eastern Shore....I know, I'm there right now

Ain't that the truth!

Actually, I make my way to Baltimore, DC and the like. There's a great auction here each Wednesday (Crumpton's)where a few good records can turn up. Also, I do a lot of online shopping to help compensate for lack of local stores.

 

[fran]

!!Sorry for the forced nationality change!!!!

 

[drk]

hm, it seems that everyone on this topic is talking about the old rega p3. i have just recently bought the new p3-24 and the extarnal psu. i haven't listened to it yet with its stock power supply, so i can not comment on the difference. it has rega elys cartridge on it. i'm very very pleased with it and it's been playing music for only about 10 hours.

i haven't heard the old p3, but everyone says that there's quite a lot of upgrades on the new p3-24.

 

[McRat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori /img/forum/go_quote.gif I like your practical philosophy! That's why I spin vinyl on a Sugden BD-2/A instead of my other TT, an Oracle Delphi with FR64/fxs tonearm. The BD2 is a bit more noisy but it has a lively character and with the right cartridge it just "sings".

[slightly offtopic]
Well I do have one with the straight plinth and one of the boxy kind. Both have some play on the tonearm gimbal bearings, but otherwise they're just fine. I'm a bit frightened to play my more valuable records because of those bearings.

I was wondering what is this magic matching cartridge you are referring to?
[/offtopic]