squirrelboy1210
Head-Fier
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- Feb 24, 2012
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So not too long ago two very established names in the audiophile industry, Westone and JVC updated their previous line of iems. The Westone 4r was updated to the w40 and the jvc fx800 was updated to the jvc fx850. I've only briefly heard the w4r and haven't heard the fx800, so I won't be comparing the two of those, nor will I be comparing the previous iems to the current ones. I guess I wanted to hear the different opinions of people who have heard both. What's interesting to me was that both iems were capable enough to make me skeptical of the pricing of a couple of summit-fi models (by summit-fi i refer to iems around and above the 1000-dollar-range) - namely sennheiser's ie800 and models from final audio design and a previous summit-fi iem of Westone (I apologize I forgot the names for them) Sure they may not be capable of beating out portable listening marvels of engineering such as JH audio's Roxanne and AKG K3003 (both of which i have had the oppurtunity to listen to extensively) but they get unnervingly near that level of fidelity at half the price. Here are my impressions after extensive listening to both the w40 and fx850.
(photos found on Google)
Design:
fx850: What can I say? The wooden housing of the iems themselves look gorgeous. They scream "quality" to the world in a sophisticated way. A classic turn on aesthetics, much welcome after so much exposure to the "hip hop," "street cool" headphones and iems from beats by dr.dre, soul by ludacris and the like. As is explained in the brochure, they remind me of classy violins hand-crafted by artisans. Just on looks alone, the fx850 makes me want to baby them and prevent them from wear and tear.
w40: Plain, simple, and just what an iem should look like. Nothing amazing here folks, lets keep moving.
Winner: fx850 by a mile. Yes i know it is silly to compare the looks of earphones and not the sound but design does contribute to "pride of ownership. You really want to show off the fx850 to your friends.
Comfort:
fx850: Pretty bad, but I can live with this. For one, the housings themselves are quite large. Another point is the cables pointing downwards. The cables tend to droop down and i can see this becoming problematic to those who want to use these while exercising. It is quite likey they will fall out of your ears, and looping them around your ear like you would the w40 or se535 just feels plain awkward. It just doesn't feel right. It's probably because the cables are on the thicker side and are straight, unlike the cables to Westone, Shure, and JH audio iems, which have a curvature near their sockets to help comply to the shape of ears. I also have funnily shaped ear canals, and this could have been a factor, but I could just barely reach a snug fit with the biggest eartips. Maybe the problem can be solved with aftermarket cables or different eartips, or maybe its just due to my ears, but the fx850 could have been a more comfy.
w40: Simply put, the most comfortable iems i have ever tried, and that means quite a lot. Once they're in, I forget they're there. The housings are very small, and are very curvy to fit the contours of my ears. What's more, the cables are thin and soft, which completely alleviates the stress the tops of my ears take. (that reduces cable noise, which is also a big advantage)
Winner: a 1HKO by w40. w40 is more comfortable by far.
Now let's get to the sound!
Bass:
fx850: Honestly, I can't get enough of this bass. I was never a bass-head, because I don't want my vocals and treble extention all muddied, but JVC has found a way to tune its drivers so that you get a healthy load of bass that in no way overshadows the other frequencies. All in all, the fx850 has an emphasis on bass response, but it is just so natural. They have the capability of digging deep into the low notes. The power to ring the floor of the soundstage and feel the vibrations move upwards towards the walls is a quality of headphones I thought was never achievable in iems. However, the beating of drums rumble with great prominence and texture when listened through the fx850. Kudos to JVC, this is probably the most accurate and textured bass i have heard in an iem south of dishing out a grand. Even then, the majority of summit-fi iems are incapable of producing such resonating, authoritative bass. Bass that sounds like this is one of the reasons why so many refer to these as full-sized headphones in an iem package. Truly beyond what i expected from iems.
w40: In the bass department, the w40 does lag behind fx850. i guess there is an intrinsic downside to BA drivers that can't be addressed unless you're looking at iems with an extensive number of drivers. Don't get me wrong- bass is very accurate. It's punchy and very clean. Just the adequate amount of bass you'd want in an iem. It's more detailed than fx850- but it doesn't have the texture or depth. I guess another proper words to describe it would be "high-resolution." But it doesn't sound as natural as a speaker, a full-size headphone, or the fx850 does.
Winner: fx850
Mid-Range: (I'll just compare these at the same time- it seems easier to write)
Vocals: I'll give this round to the w40. While the fx850 sounds more solid and natural with vocals, the amount of space they take up in the soundstage is smaller than that of w40. This isn't to say vocals are recessed on the fx850. Howevery, individual voices (and different voices that come up together) on the w40 sound just a tad bit (a teensy weensy bit) diffuse and spread out. This helps the w40 show off its talents of detail retrieval. faint changes in pitch are more easily detectable when using w40.
Instruments: Again, there is a technical advantage with the w40, because they sound more detailed. However, the fx850 gave me a more enjoyable listening experience, mainly because instraments sounded so real. Trumpets and horns rang out with prominence and a natural air to them. They sounded more far apart and better imaged by a hair compared to the w40. What i really liked was how percussion and string instraments sound on the fx850. Especially the guitars in "Hotel California" and guitars in "Bohemian Rhapsody." The timber is sooooooo outstanding. Timber I never believed was possible on an iem or any portable headphone under 500 dollars. Along with bass response, this amazing timber is what contributes so much to fx850's overall listening experience.
winner: fx-850 by a hair
Treble:
w40: There is more treble extension to these than the fx850. The highest notes in a track are presented with more sparkle. It's not to say these are bright, or hot. But treble extention and amazing resolution just help you pick out details more accurately. Never sibilant (I hate sibilant iems. it completely ruins the experience for me), the w40 excell at treble sparkle, extension, and detail. Again, notes are more spread out on a plane.
fx850: Amazing soundstage and timber help out these iems in this department. High notes are so much airier than I have heard in iems near the 500 dollars price. The ringing of bells, and squeaking of strings is just unbelievably natural. I prefer the treble extension on the w40, but it's a tough choice.
winner: w40
Soundstage: Okay, let's say that the area around your skull is 10 miles in diameter. This 10 miles is the soundstage you normally hear from iems in the 200~500 dollars range. Impressive coming from such a small package, but nowhere near full-size headphones. I would describe the soundstage of the w40 as an African Savanah (the places with the tall yellow grass you see on discovery channel, if i'm correct) 15 miles in diameter. It's wide and diffuse, but not very tall. On the other hand, the soundstage of the fx850 is an Amazon Rainforest roughly 13 or 14 miles in diameter. If the shape of the soundstage on the w40 were more of a flat plane (to exaggerate) than the soundstage of the fx850 is shaped like a dome. Both are very large, but the dome just has much more volume to it. Sounds really bounce around in the soundstage in a natural way. It's organic, and amazingly fun, resulting in such a more dynamic presentation of the music. W40 may sound wider and more detailed, but lacks the dynamics of fx850.
winner: fx850
Summary: Both are very impressive iems that show that companies are pushing R&D to its limits, and are examples of the rapidly developing technologies being incorporated into the iem market as of late. There is no doubt the more technically capable of the two iems is w40. It just provides more accurate details. w40 is "king of the conventional" as in it has done everything iems have been trying to do, and incorporated those qualities into one. Dead flat neutral with nothing emphasized, w40 is an analytical beast i believe more suitable to sound engineers and producers. However, I ended up preferring the natural presentation of the fx850. Bass response that digs deeper than full-size headphones, outstanding timber, expansive/airy soundstage, and a dynamic quality to the sound (basically the wow factors) made me enjoy the fx850 just a tad more.
Design:
fx850: What can I say? The wooden housing of the iems themselves look gorgeous. They scream "quality" to the world in a sophisticated way. A classic turn on aesthetics, much welcome after so much exposure to the "hip hop," "street cool" headphones and iems from beats by dr.dre, soul by ludacris and the like. As is explained in the brochure, they remind me of classy violins hand-crafted by artisans. Just on looks alone, the fx850 makes me want to baby them and prevent them from wear and tear.
w40: Plain, simple, and just what an iem should look like. Nothing amazing here folks, lets keep moving.
Winner: fx850 by a mile. Yes i know it is silly to compare the looks of earphones and not the sound but design does contribute to "pride of ownership. You really want to show off the fx850 to your friends.
Comfort:
fx850: Pretty bad, but I can live with this. For one, the housings themselves are quite large. Another point is the cables pointing downwards. The cables tend to droop down and i can see this becoming problematic to those who want to use these while exercising. It is quite likey they will fall out of your ears, and looping them around your ear like you would the w40 or se535 just feels plain awkward. It just doesn't feel right. It's probably because the cables are on the thicker side and are straight, unlike the cables to Westone, Shure, and JH audio iems, which have a curvature near their sockets to help comply to the shape of ears. I also have funnily shaped ear canals, and this could have been a factor, but I could just barely reach a snug fit with the biggest eartips. Maybe the problem can be solved with aftermarket cables or different eartips, or maybe its just due to my ears, but the fx850 could have been a more comfy.
w40: Simply put, the most comfortable iems i have ever tried, and that means quite a lot. Once they're in, I forget they're there. The housings are very small, and are very curvy to fit the contours of my ears. What's more, the cables are thin and soft, which completely alleviates the stress the tops of my ears take. (that reduces cable noise, which is also a big advantage)
Winner: a 1HKO by w40. w40 is more comfortable by far.
Now let's get to the sound!
Bass:
fx850: Honestly, I can't get enough of this bass. I was never a bass-head, because I don't want my vocals and treble extention all muddied, but JVC has found a way to tune its drivers so that you get a healthy load of bass that in no way overshadows the other frequencies. All in all, the fx850 has an emphasis on bass response, but it is just so natural. They have the capability of digging deep into the low notes. The power to ring the floor of the soundstage and feel the vibrations move upwards towards the walls is a quality of headphones I thought was never achievable in iems. However, the beating of drums rumble with great prominence and texture when listened through the fx850. Kudos to JVC, this is probably the most accurate and textured bass i have heard in an iem south of dishing out a grand. Even then, the majority of summit-fi iems are incapable of producing such resonating, authoritative bass. Bass that sounds like this is one of the reasons why so many refer to these as full-sized headphones in an iem package. Truly beyond what i expected from iems.
w40: In the bass department, the w40 does lag behind fx850. i guess there is an intrinsic downside to BA drivers that can't be addressed unless you're looking at iems with an extensive number of drivers. Don't get me wrong- bass is very accurate. It's punchy and very clean. Just the adequate amount of bass you'd want in an iem. It's more detailed than fx850- but it doesn't have the texture or depth. I guess another proper words to describe it would be "high-resolution." But it doesn't sound as natural as a speaker, a full-size headphone, or the fx850 does.
Winner: fx850
Mid-Range: (I'll just compare these at the same time- it seems easier to write)
Vocals: I'll give this round to the w40. While the fx850 sounds more solid and natural with vocals, the amount of space they take up in the soundstage is smaller than that of w40. This isn't to say vocals are recessed on the fx850. Howevery, individual voices (and different voices that come up together) on the w40 sound just a tad bit (a teensy weensy bit) diffuse and spread out. This helps the w40 show off its talents of detail retrieval. faint changes in pitch are more easily detectable when using w40.
Instruments: Again, there is a technical advantage with the w40, because they sound more detailed. However, the fx850 gave me a more enjoyable listening experience, mainly because instraments sounded so real. Trumpets and horns rang out with prominence and a natural air to them. They sounded more far apart and better imaged by a hair compared to the w40. What i really liked was how percussion and string instraments sound on the fx850. Especially the guitars in "Hotel California" and guitars in "Bohemian Rhapsody." The timber is sooooooo outstanding. Timber I never believed was possible on an iem or any portable headphone under 500 dollars. Along with bass response, this amazing timber is what contributes so much to fx850's overall listening experience.
winner: fx-850 by a hair
Treble:
w40: There is more treble extension to these than the fx850. The highest notes in a track are presented with more sparkle. It's not to say these are bright, or hot. But treble extention and amazing resolution just help you pick out details more accurately. Never sibilant (I hate sibilant iems. it completely ruins the experience for me), the w40 excell at treble sparkle, extension, and detail. Again, notes are more spread out on a plane.
fx850: Amazing soundstage and timber help out these iems in this department. High notes are so much airier than I have heard in iems near the 500 dollars price. The ringing of bells, and squeaking of strings is just unbelievably natural. I prefer the treble extension on the w40, but it's a tough choice.
winner: w40
Soundstage: Okay, let's say that the area around your skull is 10 miles in diameter. This 10 miles is the soundstage you normally hear from iems in the 200~500 dollars range. Impressive coming from such a small package, but nowhere near full-size headphones. I would describe the soundstage of the w40 as an African Savanah (the places with the tall yellow grass you see on discovery channel, if i'm correct) 15 miles in diameter. It's wide and diffuse, but not very tall. On the other hand, the soundstage of the fx850 is an Amazon Rainforest roughly 13 or 14 miles in diameter. If the shape of the soundstage on the w40 were more of a flat plane (to exaggerate) than the soundstage of the fx850 is shaped like a dome. Both are very large, but the dome just has much more volume to it. Sounds really bounce around in the soundstage in a natural way. It's organic, and amazingly fun, resulting in such a more dynamic presentation of the music. W40 may sound wider and more detailed, but lacks the dynamics of fx850.
winner: fx850
Summary: Both are very impressive iems that show that companies are pushing R&D to its limits, and are examples of the rapidly developing technologies being incorporated into the iem market as of late. There is no doubt the more technically capable of the two iems is w40. It just provides more accurate details. w40 is "king of the conventional" as in it has done everything iems have been trying to do, and incorporated those qualities into one. Dead flat neutral with nothing emphasized, w40 is an analytical beast i believe more suitable to sound engineers and producers. However, I ended up preferring the natural presentation of the fx850. Bass response that digs deeper than full-size headphones, outstanding timber, expansive/airy soundstage, and a dynamic quality to the sound (basically the wow factors) made me enjoy the fx850 just a tad more.
