[ankit]

Based on what I read on this board, I recently got a Chaintech 710. I wasnt sure what to expect, but hoped for atleast some discernable difference. For the past hour I have been swapping the headphone jack between onboard and 710 "high sample rate" output, and not once have I found any difference between the two. I played MP3s encoded at various bitrated, various types of music (pop, rock, classical), and different volume levels. I used the KSC-35 (unamped) and ATP-3 for all my testing.

I guess I kind of already know the answer. My headphones are not the best around, and having no amp must be a major reason. I dont think I want to go for new headphones just yet. Would a simple CMOY amp help?

I must say I am kind of disappointed. I am not an audiophile by any stretch of imagination, but was expecting some improvement atleast. Any tips on what kind of stuff I should try? And how should I try it? Switch from one source to the other half way through a song, or play lots of songs on one, and then switch to the other?

 

[Publius]

At the very least, the lower noise floor is very apparant, but you do need some seriously sensitive phones to notice it. I can barely hear the noise on the mobo out with my ER-4Ss at normal listening volumes; with the 4P mode it's much more apparant.

Beyond that, yeah, it's hard to tell a difference. Personally I can't tell a difference between my unmodded RME, my 710 and my mobo out once noise gets inaudible - and I run amped.

 

[skitlets]

My av-710 couldnt power the ms-1s properly, though I haven't had amping experience with the ksc-35. I suggest you listen to the av-710 some more and let your ears properly adjust to them. I have no idea what listening experience you have, but it took me sometime to properly appreciate the ms-1.

O yeah, I definitely find the av-710 better than onboard sound.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

FWIW I find the AV710 to sound quite a bit more lively and engaging than the ALC650 or 850 onboard chips, which just generally sound very flat (lacking dynamics) and boring, or lifeless. It is like you hear all the sound, but it has no snap, or emotion, sparkle, etc. For only $25 I think the Chaintech is a no brainer, but then again I am speaking from using it with a headamp of somekind, since it puts out pretty lower power, as the 7/8 output is directly driven by the wolfson DAC.

 

[bassd00d]

Try listening to the AV-710 for a while...maybe an hour or so. Your ears will get used to its sound. Then try going back to the onboard sound, and see if you can tell a different.

 

[NeilPeart]

I just replaced my grandpa's Turtle Beach Santa Cruz with the AV-710 and I didn't tell him (mind you his hearing is nearly gone and he's not even close to an audiophile, though he loves classical music). As soon as he turns on the computer he listens to his classical library (courtesy of my LAME-aps ripping talents, mostly because I wanted to enjoy his 300-CD Classical collection - I encoded 'em to FLAC for my usage he got lossy to conserve space on his 6.5GB drive). He said today, "Come here and listen to this - it sounds like I'm in the Hall with Mahler himself! Did you change anything, Leeav you crazy audio-nut?!" I didn't think he would ever notice, what with his terrible hearing and his craptacular Altec Lansing poop-speakers from a decade ago. Using foobar2000, kernel-streaming @96kHz and 24-bit padded to 32-bit using well-ripped lossless or LAME -aps (or other quality lossy formats) will sound better to almost anyone; even my grandma stopped by and exclaimed, "Wow that computer sounds better than anything in the whole house!" I didn't even realize how much of a revelation this would be to someone with no experience with anything more than a 20-year old CDP and an old AC97 soundcard. My Grandparents are gonna get a nice surprise from me this Christmas - my NAD C521BEE and C320BEE along with my PSB Image 5Ts. They are music fans who deserve better (wait till he hears my DAC1/balanced HD650 combo).

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilPeart They are music fans who deserve better (wait till he hears my DAC1/balanced HD650 combo).

Better hold off on that, you don't want to blow the old man's circuits

 

[llmobll]

Just confirming you are using Foobar and not anything else?


I doubt an amp would help on those phones at all. Maybe at least a pimeta, but then you'd be hearing the amp more than the source because of your headphone limit.


There def. is a difference though you need to play with the setting in Foobar, maybe even some EQ'ing is inorder, those KSC's have a bit of bass. The av-710 should be able to give you some punch, not much though.


In the end, I'm still going to go with the limit is you cans at the present moment.

Edit: No a Cmoy will not help much, other than upping the volume. The basic cmoy isn't a great circuit and unless you use a better opamp than is often used OPA2132 or OPA2227 you won't hear a diff at all. AD8620 anyone?

 

[ankit]

Thanks for all the response. I dont have much experience with hi-fi equipment (the best probably being my ipod with the KSC-35). I think I need to give it some more time before I can appreciate the difference. I did try foobar, but am not sure what changes I need to make to the default settings. Is there a FAQ or tutorial that describes the various options, and what to use? What exactly is kernel streaming, waveout, kmixer, ASIO4All, and which to use when?

thanks,
ankit

 

[skitlets]

kernel streaming and asio4all bypass kmixer, window's audio processor which isn't bit-perfect, meaning a loss in quality. Unfortunately, I do not believe asio4all works on the av-710, so kernel streaming is the only option to bypass kmixer.

 

[Mr.Radar]

What exactly is kernel streaming,[/url]
A sound output method that sometimes bypasses the Windows kMixer (see below). It only works on Windows 2000 and XP.

Quote:

waveout,

It's an audio output method like Kernel Streaming, except you're almost guaranteed to be sent through kMixer. It's depreciated on Windows 2000 and XP in favor of DirectSound, though it's suppost to use less resources on Windows 9x and ME.

Quote:

kmixer,

The Windows mixer service that takes all the sounds and mixes them together. It's biggest problems are described in this thread.

Quote:

ASIO4All,

ASIO4All enables soundcards that don't support ASIO to use it by simluating a soundcard which supports ASIO, then taking the data it's given and sending it to the real soundcard using kernel streaming.

Quote:

and which to use when?

WaveOut and DirectSound both should be used only as a last resort, as they both get piped through kMixer 99% of the time. Kernel streaming bypasses it most of the time, though not always, and it should be used whenever possible (if you can get it working, some soundcards don't like KS). ASIO (for cards that natively support ASIO) is an alternative to KS, with more features, though they are of little relevence to people who only want to play back music (ASIO is a profession audio interface, and is designed to be ultra-tweakable for use in recording studios). If the application supports kernel streaming output then it's generally better to not use ASIO4All, as that just adds a few layers of complication to the process, however if the program doesn't support kernel streaming but does support ASIO then you can use ASIO4All to avoid kmixer.

 

[The_Mac]

step 1:

plug your ATP3's into the good port on the 710 and listen to an album. Listen for the pleasure of it, perferably your favourite album.

step 2:

plug your ATP3's into your onboard sound, then listen to the same album. See if you can hear a difference.

I have the same speakers, and while they're not the most powerful, they're moderatly revealing, and should definatly be able to show you the differences between the two cards.

 

[1UP]

Hey, if you really can't tell much difference with your current equipment, then that's fine!

Don't be pressured into thinking there HAS to be an improvement just cause others say so (with expensive amps and phones).

I'm sorry but all this AB AB all night, turn the light off, AB again; hear the difference? Sounds like stereotypical audiophile BS.

 

[bangraman]

Using 16-bit 44.1khz data I still can't discern a difference worth upgrading from between the Terratec Aureon Space (apparently better than the Chaintech) and the Sound Blaster Live!... and this is amped.


I haven't tried auditioning it with the built-in sound of the HP D-series PC's I did the tests on, perhaps I'll try that later.

 

[cosmopragma]

Well, the Chaintech I've recently implanted into my GF's computer sounds definately better than the onboard AC 97 codec.
I personally find it mediocre, but I'm spoiled anyway, and my GF loves it.
A happy GF for 30 Euro, who can ask for more?