[Jamie G]

Hi,

Just joined up so be gentle with me!

So a brief rundown of the situation. I'm fairly new to the headphone world and am pretty much hooked! I'm on the second rung of the ladder at the moment having started with a Dragonfly Black and a pair of X2's, the upgradeitis soon kicked in and i moved to a Schiit Modi/Magni with a pair of HD650's. The 650's have taken my expectations of headphones to another level, but i get the feeling there's more (better) to be had from them. On certain tracks they sound a bit 'thin' and 'shouty' (excuse the terminology, not sure how best to describe what i hear). So my thinking is to upgrade the Schiit stack. Would like balanced preferably, i've heard good things and am curious. Got a few options that i'm considering so far:

• Schiit Jotunheim (seems to a fans favourite with 650's, but trying to get one in the UK is almost impossible)
• Audio GD NFB-11 (ok, not balanced but cracking reviews and a good price)
• Audio GD R2R 11/15 (again, not balanced but again cracking reviews and an even BETTER price...although reports of audible 'popping' when changing tracks is a off putting)
• Aune S6 (Ooooh...screen Reviews seem pretty favourable but nothing amazing. Unfortunately also difficult to get in the UK and am not keen on buying direct from China)
• Anything second hand that would fall in or around my budget (almost pulled the trigger on an Oppo HA1 on ebay)

Anyway, i'd be really grateful for any opinions or suggestions. Maybe i've not noticed some glaringly obvious $400 DAC/Amp from God! Doubtful but you never know. If it makes any difference my listening is done via a media PC running Windows 10 using Foobar as my player.

Thanks in advance guys, and any help or advice you can give will be very much appreciated.

 

[PurpleAngel]

What programs on your computer do you use to play audio files?
(I prefer to use Foobar2000 (w/ WASAPI).

I'm on my 3rd DAC/amp, from Audio-GD, just bought the NFB-11.28 last month and I'm liking it.

I would say to keep using the Schiit Modi DAC and get a Darkvoice 336SE OTL tube headphone amplifier ($250).

 

[Jamie G]

Exactly the same mate, with the majority of source material ripped to FLAC using EAC. Really want to try Roon but i can't justify the cost (does look pretty though!)

What would you say about the NFB11's sound? I've heard some say its a little warm, which is something i think may help (so long as detail and clarity etc is still on point)

Yeah i am thinking about trying out tubes in the future, just keen to get a solid state base sorted first. i.e. get a good DAC/Amp with the ability to preout to a tube amp some point down the line


Cheers for the reply

 

[Monsterzero]

• Audio GD R2R 11/15 (again, not balanced but again cracking reviews and an even BETTER price...although reports of audible 'popping' when changing tracks is a off putting)

• 
  
  It really is a shame that the 'popping' issue has become so overblown when discussing this amp/DAC.I too was hesitant when I read about the issue but in all honesty its a non-factor(for me).The 'popping' is ever so slight,not a pop but more like the sound of your tongue on the roof of your mouth,and very slight at that,and only happens occasionally at the start of a song for a millisecond when changing bitrates.
  
  YMMV but im very happy with mine and am quite impressed with the sound,especially for the price.
  
  

 

[Jamie G]

• 
  
  It really is a shame that the 'popping' issue has become so overblown when discussing this amp/DAC.I too was hesitant when I read about the issue but in all honesty its a non-factor(for me).The 'popping' is ever so slight,not a pop but more like the sound of your tongue on the roof of your mouth,and very slight at that,and only happens occasionally at the start of a song for a millisecond when changing bitrates.
  
  YMMV but im very happy with mine and am quite impressed with the sound,especially for the price.
  

Oh so its not simply when changing tracks then? Only when the changing to a track with a different bitrate?

Starting to think i might've made a schoolboy error missing out on an R2R-15 on ebay that went for £220 (c. $300 us)

 

[Monsterzero]

Oh so its not simply when changing tracks then? Only when the changing to a track with a different bitrate?

Correct.When i play files from my hard drive,90% of which are 16/44.1 lossless,going from one track to the other of the same bitrate there is no "pop",only when I go from 16/44 to MP3 or to 24/96 or 24/192 does it occur....so for me,like once every 30-45 minutes.

I stream Sirius/XM at home during the day and the pop never occurs.

 

[squee116]

I don't think a new amp/dac are going to change your gripes with the HD650. I use the HD6xx (rebranded 650's) w/ a Schiit Bifrost Multibit, leading to both a MAC 1900 and Violectric v200. While vastly different in sound signature, I didn't notice significantly large differences in presentation. If the vocals are too forward for you, or the soundstage seems too narrow or shallow, you need a different headphone. Those are common commentary on the model.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

The 650's have taken my expectations of headphones to another level, but i get the feeling there's more (better) to be had from them. On certain tracks they sound a bit 'thin' and 'shouty' (excuse the terminology, not sure how best to describe what i hear).

You're likely listening too loud already if the HD650 has a shouty midrange, or the recordings just suck.

You can try a Violectric amp, or the Meier Jazz, but all these will do is be less shouty than Schiit amps when cranked up. If it's in the recording and you're listening too loud this can still happen.

One thing you can try first - tweak the fit on the HD650. Extend the metal arms and bend them outwards to relax the grip, and then when you wear them, push them forward with the rear side of the earpads. That way the drivers aren't too close nor too direct into your ear canal. Maybe try the Brainwavz HM5 angled earpads but those require gutting the original earpads, so best reserve that for when the earpads are worn out.

Apart from that you're probably better off buying a non-Fazor driver LCD-2. IIRC I saw an ad that they're being reissued and sell for $700.

 

[squee116]

You're likely listening too loud already if the HD650 has a shouty midrange, or the recordings just suck.

You can try a Violectric amp, or the Meier Jazz, but all these will do is be less shouty than Schiit amps when cranked up. If it's in the recording and you're listening too loud this can still happen.

One thing you can try first - tweak the fit on the HD650. Extend the metal arms and bend them outwards to relax the grip, and then when you wear them, push them forward with the rear side of the earpads. That way the drivers aren't too close nor too direct into your ear canal. Maybe try the Brainwavz HM5 angled earpads but those require gutting the original earpads, so best reserve that for when the earpads are worn out.

Apart from that you're probably better off buying a non-Fazor driver LCD-2. IIRC I saw an ad that they're being reissued and sell for $700.

I FORGOT ALMOST ENTIRELY ABOUT THE REISSUED LCD 2. You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. Monies must be saved.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Exactly the same mate, with the majority of source material ripped to FLAC using EAC. Really want to try Roon but i can't justify the cost (does look pretty though!)
What would you say about the NFB11's sound? I've heard some say its a little warm, which is something i think may help (so long as detail and clarity etc is still on point)
Yeah i am thinking about trying out tubes in the future, just keen to get a solid state base sorted first. i.e. get a good DAC/Amp with the ability to pre-out to a tube amp some point down the line
Cheers for the reply

So your Magni head amp does not have the line-output (separate from the headphone jack)?
The Darkvoice 336SE comes with a line-output (RCA), so the 336SE can be between the Modi and the Magni, so you have the option of using headphone with solid state and tube.

 

[rids57]

The Jotunheim is currently in stock at the official UK seller

https://schiit.eu.com/headphone-amps/Jotunheim

 

[Jamie G]

So from the feedback I’m getting, the general consensus seems to be that changing the Modi/Magni wont have a significant change on the 650’s?

Am I right then in thinking that the only way to really get a different sound, is with a different headphone? (or going ‘tubes’)

That would be a shame as I’ve only had the 650’s a couple of months (bought for a reasonable price second hand though) and for the most part I do absolutely LOVE them.

…it’s at this point I must point out that when I read the posts mentioning changing the 650’s I thought ‘pah, that’s not happening’ …and guess what I did next…yep, started looking at LCD2 reviews on YouTube! They sound like they could be the ideal follow-up to the 650’s, BUT are they going to be worth more than twice as much as the 650’s. Seen some on ebay uk going for around £500. Is that a good deal?? (pre-fazor model)

So should I revise my thoughts, leave the DAC/Amp as is for the time being, and instead change headphones???

If any LCD2 owners want to chime in at this point it would be appreciated. Or for that matter any other alternatives you think I may like


Thanks again…this hobby is going to get expensive!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So from the feedback I’m getting, the general consensus seems to be that changing the Modi/Magni wont have a significant change on the 650’s?

Am I right then in thinking that the only way to really get a different sound, is with a different headphone? (or going ‘tubes’)

You can get some improvements changing the active electronics upstream but it's very, very, very hard to tell if it's worth it to you. Or when it's significant, it's technically not high fidelity, as when you add such a gear that just adds too much of a different kind of distortion, like a Little Dot MkII.

That would be a shame as I’ve only had the 650’s a couple of months (bought for a reasonable price second hand though) and for the most part I do absolutely LOVE them
---
So should I revise my thoughts, leave the DAC/Amp as is for the time being, and instead change headphones???

Based on your observations in the first post, it can partly be due to the fit, which is why I suggested you loosen the headband, and then wear them "tighter" (ie since you loosened the clamp, retract the arms more to compensate). If it's still shouty to you (aka something I've never even heard about the HD650 since the observations are actually the opposite) then get the LCD-2 Classic since the old LCD-2 is much stronger from 800hz to 20hz than above 800hz.

If you want to be sure and will gamble with a few bucks, gut the earpads and mount the Brainwavz HM5 angled earpads on them - the HD650 can be shouty when the earpads are worn out. Since you got them used, this is more likely the reason, along with the fit. At least gutting the stock earpads to mount $25 on them will cost less than $60 earpads new from Sennheiser.

That said. since you did get them used:
1. Is there a driver foam cover on the ear side? People remove this because they think the treble is weak. If it's not there or it was replaced by a very thin material, ex that silk thigh-high socks girls wear with a belt attached to their panties (forgot what it's called but it used to be silk until WW2 pilots needed silk for parachutes or something), then forget the HM5 pads and get the original earpads from Sennheiser. Or order third party foam covers.
2. Are there foam pieces on the opposite side of the driver housing? You should see them on the round parts through the grill.
3. Are they grey or are they marble blue? Because shouty is something more easily attirbutable to the HD600 due to its 3500hz peak.

…it’s at this point I must point out that when I read the posts mentioning changing the 650’s I thought ‘pah, that’s not happening’ …and guess what I did next…yep, started looking at LCD2 reviews on YouTube! They sound like they could be the ideal follow-up to the 650’s, BUT are they going to be worth more than twice as much as the 650’s. Seen some on ebay uk going for around £500. Is that a good deal?? (pre-fazor model)

If reviews on the LCD-2 Classic confirm that they're the same as the pre-Fazor LCD-2 then why not get the Classic reissue and have warranty on a new item.

 

[Tro95]

As a proud owner of the HD650s and having used various Schiit stacks and other equipment, I must recommend the Bifrost/Valhalla 2 combination. I've tried the Jotunheim, but I think the Valhalla 2 is more ideal for the HD650s, even despite only being single-ended. Depending on how your budget works you may be able to get the Bifrost Multibit, but the regular Bifrost will be more than sufficient regardless.

 

[Jamie G]

You can get some improvements changing the active electronics upstream but it's very, very, very hard to tell if it's worth it to you. Or when it's significant, it's technically not high fidelity, as when you add such a gear that just adds too much of a different kind of distortion, like a Little Dot MkII.

Based on your observations in the first post, it can partly be due to the fit, which is why I suggested you loosen the headband, and then wear them "tighter" (ie since you loosened the clamp, retract the arms more to compensate). If it's still shouty to you (aka something I've never even heard about the HD650 since the observations are actually the opposite) then get the LCD-2 Classic since the old LCD-2 is much stronger from 800hz to 20hz than above 800hz.

If you want to be sure and will gamble with a few bucks, gut the earpads and mount the Brainwavz HM5 angled earpads on them - the HD650 can be shouty when the earpads are worn out. Since you got them used, this is more likely the reason, along with the fit. At least gutting the stock earpads to mount $25 on them will cost less than $60 earpads new from Sennheiser.

That said. since you did get them used:
1. Is there a driver foam cover on the ear side? People remove this because they think the treble is weak. If it's not there or it was replaced by a very thin material, ex that silk thigh-high socks girls wear with a belt attached to their panties (forgot what it's called but it used to be silk until WW2 pilots needed silk for parachutes or something), then forget the HM5 pads and get the original earpads from Sennheiser. Or order third party foam covers.
2. Are there foam pieces on the opposite side of the driver housing? You should see them on the round parts through the grill.
3. Are they grey or are they marble blue? Because shouty is something more easily attirbutable to the HD600 due to its 3500hz peak.




If reviews on the LCD-2 Classic confirm that they're the same as the pre-Fazor LCD-2 then why not get the Classic reissue and have warranty on a new item.

Thanks for the reply, I understand what you mean. It is hard to advise someone from afar as you can't know exactly what i feel is lacking. It may well be simply certain tracks that don't play nicely with the 650's. I've got a fairly varied taste, but do I tend to listen to a lot rock / metal and it may well be tracks from those genres that are affected (wish i could remember the specific tracks!)

I've got them fitting fairly tight already, but funny you mention the pads as the first thing i did after buying them was get a new set of pads (official Sennheiser replacements) as i didn't fancy someone else's ear-sweat sat on my face, and to be honest...they sounded worse! Noticeably so in fact. Thinner sound, and lacking in bass (kick drums for example) In response to the points above:

1. The foam covers are present and correct, and seem better quality (if somewhat old) than the ones that came with the replacement pads...maybe Sennheiser changed design? Anyway, moving on

2. Hard to see, but there seems to be foam inserted into the circular housing under the grill

3. Yes they're definitely 650's...i'm new but im not that new


LCD2's in general are very hard to come by over here. I can only find one place that stocks them and they're £700!...you boys over the water get all the good stuff ha ha


Jamie