[FreeBlues]

I’m not trying to start a flame war nor am I writing to bash Rockbox. However, given all the positive press Rockbox gets on this forum, I think a cautionary word is in order.

I’ve spent the better part of the last 3 days trying to get Rockbox to work on my 5G 30mb ipod. I’ll admit I made some really stupid mistakes along the way, but in the end I did get it correctly installed, followed instructions and suggestions and it didn’t work for me. Not at all.

Perhaps my situation is unique. I’ve ripped some 4,000 CD’s to my computer using Apple Lossless (ALAC) exclusively. When I load songs onto my iPod I retain the ALAC format. I believe I can hear a difference and I’m not willing to compromise on this. YMMV.

I wanted to try Rockbox based on recent threads stating the sound quality one gets from Rockbox is better. I’m not unhappy with iTunes nor do I have any energy about the way Apple organizes or implements its firmware. I ONLY care about the sound and am willing, within reason, to put up with some inconvenience (e.g. battery life) to get it. (For the record, I found the Rockbox system to be non-intuitive, overly cluttered and complex and not very user friendly.)

Anyway, after lots of fretting, fussing, fiddling and general frustration, Rockbox would not find more than one music file on my player. I loaded and re-loaded multiple times, I did all the tag cache things, I re-set and re-initialized countless times, all with the same results. The best guess anyone could come up with was that perhaps Rockbox and ALAC were not fully compatible.

Now, I could maybe try to convert all my files to FLAC and see if that got Rockbox to work, I could re-rip all the CD’s I still own in FLAC or I could get another player. I could, but I won’t. My experience with Rockbox to date has been unhappy and I’m gonna stay away from it until it’s further along.

I’m bummed. I wanted this to work, I tried hard, spent many hours. At the end of the day, I’m back to Apple’s firmware.

 

[fierce_freak]

You could try converting just one album to FLAC, just to give it a shot...or, as you said, wait until it's further along in development. It's still pre-beta for the ipod, afaik.

 

[GIGANTOID]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeBlues (For the record, I found the Rockbox system to be non-intuitive, overly cluttered and complex and not very user friendly.)

Here, here. I think your situation may be unique. I have recently installed Rockbox. Also using the dual boot loader they have whiuch allows me to switch back and forth. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED for when you want battery life over SQ.

Anyway. I'm sure ALAC works at least on the 60GB 5G. So perhaps you may want to install that dual boot loader and then remove all of the files from the iPod and try sorting it out with one album to begin with. A pain I know but a place to start.

 

[ObiHuang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeBlues I’m not trying to start a flame war nor am I writing to bash Rockbox. However, given all the positive press Rockbox gets on this forum, I think a cautionary word is in order. I’ve spent the better part of the last 3 days trying to get Rockbox to work on my 5G 30mb ipod. I’ll admit I made some really stupid mistakes along the way, but in the end I did get it correctly installed, followed instructions and suggestions and it didn’t work for me. Not at all. Perhaps my situation is unique. I’ve ripped some 4,000 CD’s to my computer using Apple Lossless (ALAC) exclusively. When I load songs onto my iPod I retain the ALAC format. I believe I can hear a difference and I’m not willing to compromise on this. YMMV. I wanted to try Rockbox based on recent threads stating the sound quality one gets from Rockbox is better. I’m not unhappy with iTunes nor do I have any energy about the way Apple organizes or implements its firmware. I ONLY care about the sound and am willing, within reason, to put up with some inconvenience (e.g. battery life) to get it. (For the record, I found the Rockbox system to be non-intuitive, overly cluttered and complex and not very user friendly.) Anyway, after lots of fretting, fussing, fiddling and general frustration, Rockbox would not find more than one music file on my player. I loaded and re-loaded multiple times, I did all the tag cache things, I re-set and re-initialized countless times, all with the same results. The best guess anyone could come up with was that perhaps Rockbox and ALAC were not fully compatible. Now, I could maybe try to convert all my files to FLAC and see if that got Rockbox to work, I could re-rip all the CD’s I still own in FLAC or I could get another player. I could, but I won’t. My experience with Rockbox to date has been unhappy and I’m gonna stay away from it until it’s further along. I’m bummed. I wanted this to work, I tried hard, spent many hours. At the end of the day, I’m back to Apple’s firmware.

Can Rockbox not SEE your files or do they fail to load? If you're still synching with iTunes, there's your problem right there. You gotta go into your options menu and click "rebuild TagCache." This will organize all the files iTunes has stored on the iPod. If you're just dragging and dropping into the iPod... then you have a very unique problem.

 

[FreeBlues]

Gigantoid - I thought about trying one album in FLAC, still am.

Thing is, Rockbox for the ipod is still "pre-beta." I'm not further inclined to mess with my music collection until development is a lot further along.

Threads I've read here seem to imply (or flat ot state) that Rockbox and 5g iPod and ALAC all work perfectly together. This hasn't been my experience.

 

[Siebel]

FreeBlues,

Sorry to hear about all your troubles. I'm still new to all of this but I just installed Rockbox over the weekend on my 4G 60G ipod and I don't know if that makes a difference 4G vs. 5G but for me it works flawlessly. It saw all my ALAC files without a problem. I still re-ripped all my CD's to flac and loaded them on my ipod. No problems what so ever. I actually prefer flac over alac. To my ears Rockbox sounds a lot better than the regular Apple OS. I would definitely give it another try it is worth it.

Siebel

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Anyway, after lots of fretting, fussing, fiddling and general frustration, Rockbox would not find more than one music file on my player. I loaded and re-loaded multiple times, I did all the tag cache things, I re-set and re-initialized countless times, all with the same results. The best guess anyone could come up with was that perhaps Rockbox and ALAC were not fully compatible.

If you are going to report what I said to you in another forum, I would appreciate it if you would report it accurately. What I posted in response to your thread on the Rockbox forum was not that my "best guess was that perhaps Rockbox and ALAC were not fully compatible." I said that there may be unresolved issues using Rockbox with the Tag Cache. Tag Cache issues are not related to the compability of Rockbox with the ALAC codec itself.

I asked if anyone had been able to replicate your problem. If anyone had stepped up with a similar problem, then that would have identified an issue with the Rockbox Tag Cache and ALAC. No-one identified a similar problem. Moreover, other people in this thread have reported using Rockbox and ALAC with no problem. That suggests to me that there the problem, whatever it may be, is specific to your ALAC files or to the way that you are trying to use the Tag Cache. There are some relatively easy things that we could try to figure out what the issue is.

 

[FreeBlues]

ObiHuang - I used iTunes to synch files to my player. Rockbox would sometimes see the files but would only ever play just one on the list. I'm not sure what you mean about "options" and re-building the tag cache. Do you mean in iTunes or Rockbox? If you mean on Rockbox, then, yes, I did that. Actually, the process as I recall is to first initialize then change file view to id3. Maybe you mean something else?

Siebel - it's posts like yours that made and still make me want to use Rockbox!

Febs - I appreciate all the help you've given me so far. Really. There were no follow up posts or suggestions. This lead me to conclude that somehow ALAC was the issue. Perhaps I jumped to conclusions. Further, this was the suggestion of another poster, not you. (You jumped in to help is the way I recall it). If you have other suggestions, PM me and we can work it out offline. If we get it to work I'll be more than happy to eat the crow and report good news.

Here's the deal. I'm a reasonably competent person but new to the ipod modification game. I've read many posts here stating that Rockbox was the greatest thing ever and that it woked fine on 5g ipods and with ALAC. Based on these encouraging posts I gave it a try. It didn't work for me. My point is that like all the things we discuss here, some people love item A and others hate it. In fairness to others like me that will be tempted to try Rockbox I'm posting my experience and my opinion. My opinion is that Rockbox is still not ready for prime time.

 

[vapman]

alac didn't run right on my 5g ipod. for some reason it's running fine on my 3g. i just reinstalled the ipod os on my 5g and kept it on my 3g. its better that way.

 

[Febs]

OK. You need to understand that iTunes takes your files, renames them with names like ADCB, and puts them into seemingly random files in the ipod_control directory. What the Tag Cache does is to find the files, build a database based on their tag information, and then let you browse using the tag information. The fact that you can't get the Tag Cache to build doesn't mean that Rockbox has a problem playing the file--it just may mean that Rockbox can't find the file.

So, with that in mind, here are two suggestions:

1. Instead of using iTunes to load music onto your player, simply drag and drop some of your ALAC files onto the player and play them from the File Browser rather than using the Tag Cache. This will at least tell you whether it is the actual codec that is a problem or something with the Tag Cache.

2. Post one of your problem files somewhere where a developer can download and test it.

 

[mister__big]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeBlues I’ve spent the better part of the last 3 days trying to get Rockbox to work on my 5G 30mb ipod.

Your iPod is only 30MBs, of course Rockbox wouldn't work.

Seriously though, it's good you're bringing this to our attention so potential Rockbox converters (i.e. me) can know about possible pitfalls before getting into it.

 

[drizek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mister__big Your iPod is only 30MBs, of course Rockbox wouldn't work. Seriously though, it's good you're bringing this to our attention so potential Rockbox converters (i.e. me) can know about possible pitfalls before getting into it.

There are no pitfalls. If it doesnt work for you just delete it and go back to the old firmware, simple as that. You really shouldnt have anything to fear with installing rockbox.

 

[wax4213]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeBlues ObiHuang - I used iTunes to synch files to my player. Rockbox would sometimes see the files but would only ever play just one on the list. I'm not sure what you mean about "options" and re-building the tag cache. Do you mean in iTunes or Rockbox? If you mean on Rockbox, then, yes, I did that. Actually, the process as I recall is to first initialize then change file view to id3. Maybe you mean something else?

I just want to make sure that you are letting tagcache run to completion, then restarting the iPod to let the tagcache settings apply. There should be a small symbol in the upper right hand corner of the screen when the tagcache is updating, and the hdd will be spinning. This takes a few minutes. Then restart, or else it won't apply the settings. Switch to id3 view like you said, and you should be good. This is how it works for me with my mp3's loaded from yamipod. I'm not sure how ALAC handles tags, so maybe there's an issue with tagcache and the specific ALAC tags?

 

[FreeBlues]

I'm typed up a reply to this but now I don't see it. If you come across that set of comments then tell me where they are!

Updates:

Rockbox is working and playing music. Sort of. File Browser works, tag cache does not.

I took Febs advice and did a new install of Rockbox. No problems. Instead of using iTunes to put some music on my ipod I used Windows Explorer. After some fiddling - the Rockbox control system is still non-intuitive - and some small settings changes I was able to both see the tunes I’d installed on the main Rockbox menu and play them back. The major difference this time was that I used File Browser, not tag cache.

Progress!

As Febs explained to me (offline) tag cache is necessary if I want to use iTunes to manage the music on my computer and move files to my ipod. This is important to me since I have my 4,000 songs all arranged in playlists. I rarely move individual songs or albums on to my ipod, I almost always use playlists. So, I can use file browser in Rockbox and Windoows Explorer to manage my songs, but without tag cache I won’t be able to use my iTunes organize playlists on my ipod. I have put a fair amount of time into my iTunes organization and it will be a real pain to give that up.

Still, the main reason I wanted to try Rockbox was to see if there were any real SQ improvements. I haven’t been able to test that aspect out yet, but will start right away. If Rockbox really does give better SQ then I will likely invest some more time. I can still boot my ipod to the Apple firmware and use iTunes, so no serious downside.

Wax4213 – yes I did wait for the disc icon to go out when I initialized. This operation took over 40 minutes. Changing the view to id3 took another 40+ minutes. When both were complete I still couldn’t find my music or play it. (I also had a dead battery.)

A couple more questions for those in the know. After the new install I discovered that I still had fragments of songs I’d tried to initialize in earlier attempts. These fragments cause my player to crash. I can’t find any sign of where these files are hidden and want to really get them off my player. Does anyone know how to do this?

Second, the default font size for Rockbok is microscopic. I downloaded the current font set and tried a couple, but they weren’t much better. Does someone have a LARGE, really readable font suggestion? Second, even after selecting a font it seems to go away after I shut down and re-start. Is this right?

 

[wax4213]

40 minutes is a bit long for that, I have no doubt that it happened for you, but it hints that there's a larger problem somewhere. I don't know enough about how Rockbox works to offer any more of a solution, maybe Febs would have a suggestion. It really only takes mine, at most, 5 minutes to finish updating tagcache, and mere seconds to change to id3 view. I have a 4g 20gig, but Rockbox is supposed to work better on the 5g. Huh.