[zip22]

i don't think i would call that a line out. doesnt it completely disable the screen (because it thinks you're plugging into a tv)?

 

[ILikeMusic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zip22 i don't think i would call that a line out. doesnt it completely disable the screen (because it thinks you're plugging into a tv)?

Ah, yes, you might be correct. I don't remember whether plugging in the cable disables the screen or not but it might...

 

[Oistrakh]

Get the ipod. I had a creative mp3 player and it broke after a week of using it. Theres a REASON why the ipod is more popular than creative.

 

[ptaaty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILikeMusic Ah, yes, you might be correct. I don't remember whether plugging in the cable disables the screen or not but it might...

It does...its to conserve power while outputting a video signal.

Also I agree with the guy who says to buy an iPod because he once had a Creative player that broke. Also I would suggest getting a mac because PCs crash. In addition, I am quite sure that marketing plays no roll in iPod demand.

If at all possible get a little hands on with both players, and while you are at it the iaudio x5. The x5 has some additional nice features and has an "X5L" version with incredible battery life. If videos are not important and you don't mind the control and file tree navigation its a great audio player.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oistrakh Get the ipod. I had a creative mp3 player and it broke after a week of using it. Theres a REASON why the ipod is more popular than creative.

Just because you had a player break doesn't mean all creative products are faulty. And as for the reason ipods are more popular, I'd credit the majority to apple's advertising.

 

[pmoney]

I would definitely choose the ZVM. Its a little thicker than the ipod but it has so many more features it is worth it. Even though you dont seem to want a ton of features, you will probably end up enjoying some of them. The sound quality is better than an ipod and as far as controls go, this is a toss up. Many prefer the simple clickwheel, but I have found that the touchstrip is not bad at all and creative has hit a home run with the ZVM's screen and GUI.

Snag a new one at crutchfield for $280 with the PA440 code.

 

[bangraman]

I have both, and at this moment in time I would say the iPod if your focus is on audio.


Ignoring the video, which is actually one of the reasons which the Zen is a better bet simply because there is no time-consuming transcoding involved for a lot of P2P downloadable videos, the iPod has superior usability, and equivalent sound quality provided you don't kick in the EQ.


The Zen has a slightly smoother sound, while the iPod sounds more sharply defined... but in reality, neither seems to offer superior resolution. (I wonder who'll be first pitch in with an argument based on the 97db SNR figure?

) The overall sound quality of the ZV:M is comparable to the 5G iPod, iRiver H3xx and the iAudio X5. It is not definitively superior to any of these players. Personally, I like the way the Zen Vision sounds but as of now it does not display superiority that would make or break the choice based on sound quality alone when compared with any of the other players I mentioned.


Even if you do engage the EQ on the Zen Vision M, I think that the equalised sound is noticeably crippled in terms of quality in comparison to other EQ's. So the toss-up between the iPod and the Zen is that with the Apple gives you a very limited range of usable EQ presets, but they result in slightly less overall degredation of sound quality than the ZV:M's adjustable custom EQ (I'm not talking about bass distortion, etc but as a general measure of the impact of EQ).


However, there is one notable disadvantage that the ZV:M has in comparison to the above players: The headphone out is noticeably weaker. This means that you have significantly less flexibility in terms of which headphones you can use with the player. Practically speaking, on the ZV:M I think you're limited to headphones of over 105~7db/mw efficiency (less with IEMs perhaps) in order to make sure that they are driven properly.


The ZV:M doesn't yet seem to have a line out, since the AV attachment blanks out the screen and of course that way it is not possible to operate the player. There must be options soon enough though.


Many aspects of the Zen Vision M seems to have traded features for usability in comparison with the iPod, and surprisingly even when compared with some of the more traditional-control players. I've said before that I don't like players which 'gets in my face'. In terms of overall usability, I would say that the ZV:M gets in my face even more than the Sony NW-A3000, a player that I'm not all that fond of. It is suprising perhaps that such little details can get to me on a daily basis, but it does and the devil is indeed in the details.


The iPod is a better thought out machine overall, even when allowing the ZV:M some leeway for the context-menu button, and for this you're not taking an SQ hit. That would be my choice. If on the other hand, you like me want to check out the subscription-based services, then the iPod is obviously a no-go. It is the closest thing to an iPod out there for a player which offers more functionality than the Apple player, but perhaps it is not close enough in the things that make the iPod an iPod.


If you want something very different yet well-featured I would also suggest taking a look at the iAudio X5... which I would also say 'got in my face' less than the Zen Vision M, despite the slightly flakier features. The radio and the voice recording is a bit better on the X5 if those are important to you, only as usual with the X5 there are certain tradeoffs to be made for that.

 

[ILikeMusic]

I have both, and at this moment in time I would say the iPod if your focus is on audio.

And video, as per your previous comments.

Even if you do engage the EQ on the Zen Vision M, I think that the equalised sound is noticeably crippled in terms of quality in comparison to other EQ's.

However, there is one notable disadvantage that the ZV:M has in comparison to the above players: The headphone out is noticeably weaker.

Many aspects of the Zen Vision M seems to have traded features for usability in comparison with the iPod,

These comments are so completely out of sync with mine and most others' impressions that I won't bother to address them point by point, other than to say that it sure amazes me sometimes how differently a product can be perceived by different people.

 

[humanflyz]

Thanks for all the detailed information guys; it's exactly the kind of information I wanted to know about. Right now I am thinking that I should try to get some hands-on time with all 3 DAPs mentioned so far: the 5G iPod, ZVM, and the X5. I can find stores with the 5G iPod and ZVM easily, but are there any stores around the SF area that have X5 on demo?

 

[dskywalker]

I also own both at the moment and the iPod is probably going to go soon. Why? Because after using the zen for a few days, the only thing that I miss on the iPod is the click wheel.Touch strip just doesn't work as well. ZV:M's main advantage to me, is that I can delete tracks, albums, artists etc on the fly. Its battery also lasts longer bacause when you turn it off, it really goes off. Right now I'm just hoping that creative would come out with an accessory that easily enables line out.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILikeMusic I have both, and at this moment in time I would say the iPod if your focus is on audio. And video, as per your previous comments. Even if you do engage the EQ on the Zen Vision M, I think that the equalised sound is noticeably crippled in terms of quality in comparison to other EQ's. However, there is one notable disadvantage that the ZV:M has in comparison to the above players: The headphone out is noticeably weaker. Many aspects of the Zen Vision M seems to have traded features for usability in comparison with the iPod, These comments are so completely out of sync with mine and most others' impressions that I won't bother to address them point by point, other than to say that it sure amazes me sometimes how differently a product can be perceived by different people.

Perhaps it's because many people who claim to have used DAPs other than their own have at best spent a few minutes with them, or that they aren't half as critical as I am. Either way, after the hype about the superior sound quality, etc I'm not entirely convinced that the more vocal ZV:M supporters are looking at this in a balanced way.


I like many aspects about the ZV:M, but there are also many annoyances too. What I am basically saying is that the choice between it and the iPod, or in fact some other players is not as clear cut as some ZV:M enthusiasts make it out to be, especially based on the selection criteria of the original poster.

 

[ILikeMusic]

Quote:

Perhaps it's because many people who claim to have used DAPs other than their own have at best spent a few minutes with them, or that they aren't half as critical as I am. Either way, after the hype about the superior sound quality, etc I'm not entirely convinced that the more vocal ZV:M supporters are looking at this in a balanced way.

OK, fair enough. I guess I can't be sure that the vocal supporters are being any more balanced than the vocal detractors

, just going by the propensity of numbers.

I would have to admit to being one of those who only spent a relatively short time doing an SQ comparison against the iPod, it's just that it didn't take me much longer than that to note the pretty clear improvement when switching to the ZVM, especially with respect to low bass response. I also didn't note any problem with the EQ (unlike some previous Creative products, admittedly) and in fact thought that it worked very well and was a very useful tool. I would sure hate to be without it.

 

[Ender Wiggin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dskywalker Its battery also lasts longer bacause when you turn it off, it really goes off.

Is this true? The iPod never turns off?

How does this affect battery life...if I leave it "off" for a day and turn it back on will the battery be drained?

 

[s2pidstoner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender Wiggin Is this true? The iPod never turns off? How does this affect battery life...if I leave it "off" for a day and turn it back on will the battery be drained?

it goes to sleep, but doesn't turn off. After a while it goes to a deeper sleep and when you turn it back on the apple logo will show up for a bit. The battery won't be "drained" after a day, but i think it'll be incremently less

 

[Ender Wiggin]

Why is there no way to turn it off? Just because Apple made it that way?

That's stupid.