Metalcore/Deathcore/Hardcore/Post HC/Progressive/Death Metal
400i - Returning. What now?
- Thread starter kirkftl
- Start date
Metalcore/Deathcore/Hardcore/Post HC/Progressive/Death Metal
Can't go wrong with dt 1990 pro honestly. Pretty sure they are much more comfortable than old Custom Pros due to open build and velour pads. I do find them quite comfortable at least. The clam is rather strong, but this way it lets the HPs to distribute the weight well and I get used to it after a moment.
If you find them bright, you can always switch to the balanced pads. I use the A pads with slightly warm source. Got no problem with harshness or sibilance whatsoever. Clear, natural sound, one of best HPs in this price range.
If you find them bright, you can always switch to the balanced pads. I use the A pads with slightly warm source. Got no problem with harshness or sibilance whatsoever. Clear, natural sound, one of best HPs in this price range.
Last edited:
obobskivich
Headphoneus Supremus
I'd probably vote "pass" on the Senns for reasons already explained - they're a bit melodic, slow, laid-back, etc and frankly just don't ever "get there" with many more energetic genres. They'll do awesome with trance, but for metal, rock, etc they've never really "clicked" for me. I'd probably pass on the Beyers if you don't like very aggressive treble, but I haven't heard the newest 4-digit Tesla series (e.g. 1770, 1990, etc) - reviews seem to indicate they've been trying to make a more balanced-sounding headphone but as I said, I haven't heard them myself.
As far as headphones I'd suggest looking at (and folks, if you want to start a big'ol argument with me trying to be "more right" or go back and forth "because OP said..." please think through this: I am trying to provide a list of things for consideration; in the modern retail world auditioning a lot of this stuff is frankly impossible for most people, so it really turns into "read a lot, take a chance, buy and try, and use the return policy if you're not happy"):
- Grado. Given your budget I'd say go right for the RS-1 and be done with it. In anticipation of some potential push-back: yes, they're bright and lean, but no they are not as abusive, etched, or screechy as Beyerdynamic or HiFiMan can be. There should be a distinction between "bright" and "too much" that all too often doesn't seem to be made. As far as the sonics go, they have a fast, punchy, forward sound that (imho) lends itself to energetic music like metal or rock, and can do pretty well with electronica. The bass response probably isn't going to be where you want it for some trance/EDM pieces, but it isn't awful either (if you want the "full eyeball message" experience you should look elsewhere though).
- Audio-Technica. I haven't heard the AD2000 that was mentioned here, but I'd have no issues suggesting the A2000X. Fast, detailed, spacious, and very clear/clean sounding. They're a very organized and uncluttered sounding headphone that will keep up with the very best in terms of speed and detail retrieval IME, and should have no problems with either genre. Also not bass monsters, but I've yet to hear a bassy headphone that's really, genuinely, fast. In anticipation of some potential push-back: yes, they're closed back; no, I don't subscribe to the idea that "open v closed" tells us anything meaningful in a generalizable or essential way, so unless we're talking about isolation or leakage, its not really a "feature" worth arguing about.
- Ultrasone. Specifically the PRO2900 or 900 (in their newest incarnations they're called "900i" and "2900i" - apart from the leather headband I don't know what else has changed, but they look incredibly similar). These are probably the closest answer to "bassy and fast" - sure the top ATs, Sonys, electrostats, etc will still edge them a bit in speed, but they have very healthy low-end response, are very detailed, and generally do all things quite well (they're a great "jack of all trades" dynamic can). The 2900 are a bit more spacious/airy sounding (and that has more to do with the pads than the enclosure (how do I know this? I've had them both side-by-side and swapped their pads)), and the 900 are a bit bassier (again, pads are a big chunk of this). Will do fine with lots of genres, but with very aggressive music they will have no qualms about separating quality recordings (or encodes) from clash trash (they *are* marketed as professional monitors so I don't think that's such a sin in their case), so if you have a lot of less-than-killer quality stuff, maybe pass on these. The HFI-2400 were a more restrained option (that, imho, were beautifully suited to grunge, alt rock, numetal, etc), actually cost less, but have unfortunately been discontinued...maybe you can find one used though? (and shouldn't cost anywhere near your whole budget)
- AKG. The K7-- series are still a venerable performer - they're fast, spacious, detailed, have no issues with complex music, and do a really good job with a lot of genres. Not tons of bass, but certainly enough to be satisfied imho. Probably more "centered" than the other suggestions I've made too - as in less likely to offend people. There's lots of variants here - my experience is predominately with the original K701 (owned them for like 5-6 years as my daily driver), but I've heard the Q701 and K702 briefly (they're very similar sounding), and read great things about the K712.
- Koss. This would really be an "end run" on your budget, but the ESP/950 should at least be thought about given your budget and preferences. Effortless speed and detail, very comfortable, excellent imaging, huge dynamics on tap, etc. These are what the HD 650 could "grow up into" - everything the Senns can do, but better, plus faster, and more comfortable (they're physically bigger so there's less pressure anywhere on your head - this isn't saying the Senns are uncomfortable; they aren't). And they come with their own amplifier. MSRP puts them out of your budget, but on-sale they can drop down to around $700-750, so I'd at least think about it.
As far as headphones I'd suggest looking at (and folks, if you want to start a big'ol argument with me trying to be "more right" or go back and forth "because OP said..." please think through this: I am trying to provide a list of things for consideration; in the modern retail world auditioning a lot of this stuff is frankly impossible for most people, so it really turns into "read a lot, take a chance, buy and try, and use the return policy if you're not happy"):
- Grado. Given your budget I'd say go right for the RS-1 and be done with it. In anticipation of some potential push-back: yes, they're bright and lean, but no they are not as abusive, etched, or screechy as Beyerdynamic or HiFiMan can be. There should be a distinction between "bright" and "too much" that all too often doesn't seem to be made. As far as the sonics go, they have a fast, punchy, forward sound that (imho) lends itself to energetic music like metal or rock, and can do pretty well with electronica. The bass response probably isn't going to be where you want it for some trance/EDM pieces, but it isn't awful either (if you want the "full eyeball message" experience you should look elsewhere though).
- Audio-Technica. I haven't heard the AD2000 that was mentioned here, but I'd have no issues suggesting the A2000X. Fast, detailed, spacious, and very clear/clean sounding. They're a very organized and uncluttered sounding headphone that will keep up with the very best in terms of speed and detail retrieval IME, and should have no problems with either genre. Also not bass monsters, but I've yet to hear a bassy headphone that's really, genuinely, fast. In anticipation of some potential push-back: yes, they're closed back; no, I don't subscribe to the idea that "open v closed" tells us anything meaningful in a generalizable or essential way, so unless we're talking about isolation or leakage, its not really a "feature" worth arguing about.
- Ultrasone. Specifically the PRO2900 or 900 (in their newest incarnations they're called "900i" and "2900i" - apart from the leather headband I don't know what else has changed, but they look incredibly similar). These are probably the closest answer to "bassy and fast" - sure the top ATs, Sonys, electrostats, etc will still edge them a bit in speed, but they have very healthy low-end response, are very detailed, and generally do all things quite well (they're a great "jack of all trades" dynamic can). The 2900 are a bit more spacious/airy sounding (and that has more to do with the pads than the enclosure (how do I know this? I've had them both side-by-side and swapped their pads)), and the 900 are a bit bassier (again, pads are a big chunk of this). Will do fine with lots of genres, but with very aggressive music they will have no qualms about separating quality recordings (or encodes) from clash trash (they *are* marketed as professional monitors so I don't think that's such a sin in their case), so if you have a lot of less-than-killer quality stuff, maybe pass on these. The HFI-2400 were a more restrained option (that, imho, were beautifully suited to grunge, alt rock, numetal, etc), actually cost less, but have unfortunately been discontinued...maybe you can find one used though? (and shouldn't cost anywhere near your whole budget)
- AKG. The K7-- series are still a venerable performer - they're fast, spacious, detailed, have no issues with complex music, and do a really good job with a lot of genres. Not tons of bass, but certainly enough to be satisfied imho. Probably more "centered" than the other suggestions I've made too - as in less likely to offend people. There's lots of variants here - my experience is predominately with the original K701 (owned them for like 5-6 years as my daily driver), but I've heard the Q701 and K702 briefly (they're very similar sounding), and read great things about the K712.
- Koss. This would really be an "end run" on your budget, but the ESP/950 should at least be thought about given your budget and preferences. Effortless speed and detail, very comfortable, excellent imaging, huge dynamics on tap, etc. These are what the HD 650 could "grow up into" - everything the Senns can do, but better, plus faster, and more comfortable (they're physically bigger so there's less pressure anywhere on your head - this isn't saying the Senns are uncomfortable; they aren't). And they come with their own amplifier. MSRP puts them out of your budget, but on-sale they can drop down to around $700-750, so I'd at least think about it.
Try Sony MDR-Z7
If you think the 400i's are bright forget about most any Beyer's. If you think the 400i's are uncomfortable forget the Sennheiser 6x0's too and the LCD line. I don't find any of those uncomfortable but if you find the 400i's uncomfortable you should also find these uncomfortable also. You are going to find yourself very limited in headphones if you think these are uncomfortable. Just saying.
cossix
Headphoneus Supremus
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Specifying this idea, the Senn 600/650 are uncomfortable due to their clamping force. I had to stretch them out over the course of a few weeks by having a cardboard box wear them every night.
The LCD series is uncomfortable due to the weight mostly. I have the LCD2 and the clamp was fine, because the earpads are massive and thick. The issue is that the thin headband places all the weight in a small area on the top of the head
drwlf
500+ Head-Fier
@kirkftl
Your first post says that they "arrived today" and you're already here seeking other for options, nothing wrong with that, but remember..
It takes a while for your brain to adjust to the new sound signature of a headphone, call this brain burn-in or whatever, but it's a fact.
I won't delve into mechanical burn in, especially with planar drivers, but just give them a few weeks and some proper head time, and with any headphone, that base would be covered as well whilst your brain adjusts to the new sound signature.
Your profile/post doesn't state your previous experience in headphones - but if you've only listened to dynamic drivers in the past, IMO it's a huge change in how the sound is being generated with planar drivers, and yes: your brain needs to adjust for that as well.
TL;DR listen to the 400i for two weeks at least
I can share my pros/cons etc. after that!
Your first post says that they "arrived today" and you're already here seeking other for options, nothing wrong with that, but remember..
It takes a while for your brain to adjust to the new sound signature of a headphone, call this brain burn-in or whatever, but it's a fact.
I won't delve into mechanical burn in, especially with planar drivers, but just give them a few weeks and some proper head time, and with any headphone, that base would be covered as well whilst your brain adjusts to the new sound signature.
Your profile/post doesn't state your previous experience in headphones - but if you've only listened to dynamic drivers in the past, IMO it's a huge change in how the sound is being generated with planar drivers, and yes: your brain needs to adjust for that as well.
TL;DR listen to the 400i for two weeks at least
I can share my pros/cons etc. after that!Users who are viewing this thread
