2SK389GR source? (for pacific phono)

Aug 23, 2005 at 4:41 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 14

randytsuch

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Hi guys,

I am thinking about building a Pacific phono stage, based on this diyaudio thread,
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=1

I saw somewhere in a dynahi thread where the 2sk389 is a matched pair of 2sk170’s, so I thought I would just use a couple of 389’s to build this. The data sheets appear to confirm this will work.

Anybody know where I can find some 2SK389GR’s?

I bought some for my dynahi, but they were BL grade.

I was also thinking about using sonicaps for the RIAA circuit, and the output caps.
Any comments on my choice of caps?

TIA,
Randy
 
Aug 23, 2005 at 10:11 PM Post #2 of 14
Try Erno Borbely (link in DIY link section or google borbely audio).Pretty sure he has noise tested and matched sets available for a reasonable price.

BTW-I think you will like the Pacifica.Really has no business sounding as good as it does for such a cheap (price) design.The real cost is in the batteries / charger but the circuit itself very inexpensive to build.
 
Aug 24, 2005 at 12:20 AM Post #4 of 14
I decided to order a few matched pairs of the 2sk170gr's from borbely, that works for this.
I just need to buy a few more things to hit his 50 euro minimum order.

Also, does anybody know where I can find a program to calculate how close I will be the the RIAA curve? I have two slightly different schematics for the pacific, Thorsten's and Mad's. Not sure which one is closer to the curve, or if they are equivalent?

Randy
 
Aug 24, 2005 at 2:35 AM Post #5 of 14
There was a loooong thread on this at DIY audio and the RIAA accuracy was discussed at length.It came down to not spot on technically but as far as for music right there.This from memory so you may want to do a search.
The thing with playing around with RIAA network values is a lot of times the design was optimised to specific parts and the inpedances of the active devices,in this case the jfets.
Change one and you change everything including the tone of the final amp.The same thread also had some thoughts on CCS.cascodes and a follower on the output stage for more cable driving capability but ?i did mine honest and straight from the Yahoo group "Thunderstone Audio" files.I could provide the link but unless you are a member it will be meaningless.This is a three stage amp with an additional jfet at the front end for a simple (and effective !) MC step up stage.

some online calculators if you feel you need them are at the Hagerman Audio site and KAB USA web site.If you are into testing it yourself on a scope you will need a reverse RIAA network :

http://home.comcast.net/~walt-jung/w...AA_Network.pdf


+24 VDC for the RIAA stage jfets,+12 VDC for the MC front end.If you forego batteries for this then you will want to go the super-regulator route following a very quiet power supply front end (quite rectifiers foloowed by a CLC stage and finally the super regulator).
At these gains you can not have noise in the supply lines.

http://home.comcast.net/~walt-jung/w...g_Circuits.pdf

http://home.comcast.net/~walt-jung/w...ed_PN_Regs.pdf

http://home.comcast.net/~walt-jung/w...g_Circuits.pdf

Other options are the Sultzer-Borbely or the Borbely Regulators.Maxim and Linear Tech have monolithic versions but the part numbers escape me.

finally a fun read just for some background-

http://home.comcast.net/~walt-jung/w...no_Preamps.pdf

Good luck man.

La Pacific really is a nice sounding phono preamp if built "honest" to the schematic instead of trying to improve it or cram all kinds of high priced designer parts in.


BTW-do a search at WWW.DIYAudio.com under "el cheapo phono stage" which has a link to this project somewhere in the thread.Shows a nice tidy perfboard layout.I actually copied that for mine
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rickmonster
 
Aug 24, 2005 at 5:27 AM Post #6 of 14
Hi Rick

Is this the schematic
http://f4.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sOILQ2o...%27pacific.gif

I am a member for thunderstone, so I went and looked for this.

And, it this picture the layout
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...223&highlight=
This is the thread you point to when you talk about the pacific, but the schmatic mad_k uses is slightly different from the thunderstone one, which is also different for the one thorsten posed in this same thread, which is one of the reasons for my confusion.

Did you use the caps types called out in the thunderstone schematic? The polystyrenes are hard to find, which is one reason I was just goling to use sonicaps, but if that is what I should use, I will look some more.

Thanks for the help on this.

Randy
 
Aug 24, 2005 at 10:19 AM Post #7 of 14
Speaking of Hagerman, he also has the inverse RIAA network available for cheap. Very handy for testing.
 
Aug 24, 2005 at 3:39 PM Post #8 of 14
Quote:

Is this the schematic
http://f4.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sOILQ2...l%27pacific.gif

I am a member for thunderstone, so I went and looked for this.

And, it this picture the layout
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/show...8223&highlight=
This is the thread you point to when you talk about the pacific, but the schmatic mad_k uses is slightly different from the thunderstone one, which is also different for the one thorsten posed in this same thread, which is one of the reasons for my confusion.


Yes and yes.But the parts selection was as the original only layed out like the Mad K version which was so sweet I could not resist.The batteries used are the type used in a home security system or to turn on flood lights in case of a fire with a simple charger (simple ? HAH ! notrhing is simple !
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) mounted in a wood box from the local craft store.Big mama honking lead acid 12V/1200 AH

Polystyrene is no longer being made as a material period and that worldwide.
Just like with the move to lead free compliance certain things are considered not freindly to the environment so forced compliance is the way of things or you can not ship your product internationally.However,the recent "Pease Porridge" column (Bob Pease) in "Electrical Design" magazine came up with LCR Capacitors UK as a new production source (www.lcrcapacitors.co.uk).
I used NOS silver micas from one of the surplus electronics firms in mine and the sonics balance well in my particular system.
As for the sonicaps that is where choice comes in but remember you want the tolerances as close as you can get them in a compensation network and especially so in the left channel/right channel parts matchup or your image will wander.No less than 2% matching and 5% tolerance.If you need to do the matchup yourself you will need a capacitor "null" testing device.An online search will turn up plans at one of the "gadget" sites or bouince me an email and i will direct you to one.What a null device does is just use elimination as the means to test rather than actually measuring which in a capacitor means "in circuit".Passive but capacitive/reactive so needs to be powered-up and in a circuit to be measured unlike the resistor.


Either method (Yahoo Group schemo or DIYAudio schemo) should be fine and at this price you could always make a version of each model,decide which you like best then make a gift of the other to someone
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Not the supply though ! That is where your cost will be no matter how you go at it.Circuitry is mostly cheap until you stup up to triode gear but no way are the packaging and powering cheap if you want to have both good performance and not have to hide the actual device.
I have kluged up a few of Thorstens designs and I have to say he listens to music as the guide to his designs and his decisions fall in line with what i like so when i read something he posts I take notice.He also makes the point that when you deviate from his part selection you have in fact changed the design into another thing both tonally and as a design so have made it your own.another point I agree with.
Changing parts wholesale and thewn calling it the same as the original has no merit when it really is the combination that makes the end sound.Change one thing and you have changed the entire sound of the whole.that makes it a "new" design not a "tweeaked" version of the original.All good though.The "Y" in "DIY" takes precedence and in the end it is ourself we want to please.

TIP-I like wood whenever possible and it not only is cheap but easier to work than metal plus kinda self damping.Hobby/Craft store unfinished wood boxes are cheap and will work well but are kinda light so you will want to add some extra weight internally or weight the top externally to avoid microphonics.

Quote:

Thanks for the help on this.


You got it man.I like giving something back to DIY which has treated me so good over very many years and if that means I can help someone get from A to B cool.
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Quote:

Speaking of Hagerman, he also has the inverse RIAA network available for cheap. Very handy for testing.


You are right Mark.I had forgottoen that one.Good addy.

Just for general info-the anti RIAA needs to also be very precise or what you end up with is a combination of errors.The Anit RIAA and the RIAA are complimentry equalisation networks but to measure a thing you need a standard and if that standard off then the measurement also has to be wrong by the amount of the error.Having said that I tune by ear and iuf it sounds good button the sucker up and use it instead of trying to get to some ideal that while it may measure great could end up sounding like crap !
All phono stages deviate from the ideal and that is why they all sound different (parts selection aside).The decision on where that deviation falls it what determines if a rewview of that stage is called "nuetral" but "lifeless" or "possibly colored" but "musical".

I'll take mine musical over on paper perfection any day..........
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cheers

Tricky Rick........................longwinded as usual
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Aug 24, 2005 at 4:39 PM Post #11 of 14
B&D has the 2SK389s, but they do not list grade.
linky

I have bought these from B&D before, and some were GR, other orders were BL... hit or miss. I had some from MCM or Newark also, similar situation.

B&D also have the 2SK170s, but GR is out of stock with BL and V in stock. V is not one I've tried, but it appears to be in between BL and GR, at least price-wise.
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linky
 
Aug 24, 2005 at 5:37 PM Post #12 of 14
and that is the trick-graded and matched devices.not real difficult to do at home but if doing a "one of" not the most efficient way to go either.When i was doing a version of the Forssell discrete Op-amp each stage had different idss requirements even though the basic part was the SK170.
A real pain to sort through a bag of 100 just to get a matched pair of opamps.

the Linear Systems version is branded LSK170 and is available graded but as far as i can tell only from LS directly in any way reasonable.The new package may be ideal for some though I personally shun SMD since my age has advanced and my eyesight NOT !
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LinSys1Markings.jpg
 
Aug 24, 2005 at 5:49 PM Post #13 of 14
I bought 2sk389's for my dynahi, and they were bl grade, and I am pretty sure they were from bdent (I bought transistors from a couple of places).

I think I will just buy matched 170's from borbely, seems like the easiest way to make sure I am getting what I need.

I also found a surplus place for the polystyrene caps, and they have a good selection. I may also use polystryrene where the schematic calls out for silver mica, because I can't find a 33nf silver mica, at least not yet, and I did not think they come in that large a value.

BTW, I will use batteries for the first go at this. I have some jung pwb's from a DIYAudio group buy a while back. I started to figure out what parts I need to stuff them. I guess I will set aside one of those for this phonostage, future project.

Thanks again for the help guys.

Randy
 
Aug 24, 2005 at 6:33 PM Post #14 of 14
Hi Rick
Off topic, but you said;
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42
Other options are the Sultzer-Borbely or the Borbely Regulators.Maxim and Linear Tech have monolithic versions but the part numbers escape me.
rickmonster



I was looking at linear tech this morning, but not sure how to tell which ones you were referring to. Any hint on how to find them? Would not be for this phono stage, but I could use a good easy to implement regulator for other projects.

Randy
 

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