[Corti]

It suits those who want to hold onto power and control.

It does. But it suits not only them. It also suits those underneath in a malign way.
That is, giving up responsibility by simply playing the game that others make the rules for.. Can’t go wrong if everyone else does it.

I think escaping responsibility is something many people seek in order to live a worry-free/innocent live. And I think it is hard to judge or accuse people for such behaviour, if they don’t know any better (i find myself doing the same, if i dont take the time to reflect on my actions).

But how badly this feeds global exploitation and many crisis we are facing nowadays, they are less aware of.
If they were, this would possibly end the stagnation in evolution. But it would come at a price.

edit: spelling

 

[Corti]

Of course this mainly applies to citizens of privileged societies who have the freedom and choice to educate themselves.

I feel anger for those oppressed by systems that deny them to get educated in the first place, robbing them of their choice to even get a sense of what I said before.

 

[Ryokan]

It does. But it suits not only them. It also suits those underneath in a malign way.
That is, giving up responsibility by simply playing the game that others make the rules for.. Can’t go wrong if everyone else does it.

I think escaping responsibility is something many people seek in order to live a worry-free/innocent live. And I think it is hard to judge or accuse people for such behaviour, if they don’t know any better (i find myself doing the same, if i dont take the time to reflect on my actions).

But how badly this feeds global exploitation and many crisis we are facing nowadays, they are less aware of.
If they were, this would possibly end the stagnation in evolution. But it would come at a price.

edit: spelling

Something pretty radical needs to happen but change is going to be hard fought for - on many levels not just armed conflict.
People need to be taught there are consequences for their actions but today in the West people are cosseted by the system which leads to criminals often believing they're the victim. People are generally becoming more enlightened but this can be used against them, emotions come more in to play over logic.

 

[71 dB]

So effectively, you’re stuck in the Dark Ages, without logical thinking and nothing but opinions!

In the days of the Dark Ages people were not supposed to have their own opinions about certain things. Instead, they were supposed to believe the "facts" given by those in power. In some ways, this is still true in many places in the World, unfortunately.

They’re “kinda pointless” to you because you don’t know what science is, you don’t know what reliable evidence is and you don’t know what logical thought is. The only thing you have is an unshakable belief in what you think you’re hearing and opinions/ideas which justify and explain that belief. So anything that “shakes”/questions that belief is pointless to you, regardless of the fact it’s true, scientifically evidenced, proven or demonstrated!

Sometimes people need to be humbled for them to realise their beliefs are false. Also important is to understand that it's only human to not hear or notice everything. I have a mono switch in my crossfeeder. Sometimes I listen to something in mono mode because the spatiality of the sound is crappy, for example a Youtuber has sound only in the left channel. It has happened to me that afterwards I have forgotten the mono mode on and I have listened to stereophonic material a long time before realizing it is mono! It is not that I can't hear the smallest changes in spatiality (I can). It is that I don't listen to the sound that way when watching a movie for example. It just shows how much placebo can do: If I believe it is stereo sound, mono is just fine! It is also humbling.

 

[Corti]

Something pretty radical needs to happen but change is going to be hard fought for - on many levels not just armed conflict.
People need to be taught there are consequences for their actions but today in the West people are cosseted by the system which leads to criminals often believing they're the victim.

I agree with this.

People are generally becoming more enlightened but this can be used against them, emotions come more in to play over logic.

How can enlightenment be used against them?

 

[Ryokan]

How can enlightenment be used against them?

People using emotional reasoning to convince/silence others something is right in an argument for example.

 

[Corti]

I listen to something in mono mode because the spatiality of the sound is crappy, for example a Youtuber has sound only in the left channel. It has happened to me that afterwards I have forgotten the mono mode on and I have listened to stereophonic material a long time before realizing it is mono!

Haha, i recently had the same experience. Something had only sound on one channel, so i set my APO Equalizer to copy the output from the channel with sound to the one without, so i was listening in Mono on both channels.
And i forgot to disable it afterwards and didn't notice it with other videos until i opened APO again and was kinda surprised.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, ok i accept that i am human.

 

[Corti]

People using emotional reasoning to convince/silence others something is right in an argument for example.

Well yes, but "emotional reasoning to convinvce/silence others" is not what enlightenment is about. This would actually be "manipulating".

 

[Ryokan]

Well yes, but "emotional reasoning to convinvce/silence others" is not what enlightenment is about. This would actually be "manipulating".

Yes you're right. But not everyone is enlightened like Siddhartha to see that, most of us are just 'on the road' to enlightenment especially in the West and can be susceptible to manipulation. Just my opinion.

 

[gregorio]

I’m not so sure if the Middle Ages are even over yet..

Certainly a significant number of people haven’t managed to even get as far as the Age of Reason and so are intellectually stuck in the Middle Ages.

BTW, we’re very significantly off topic now!

G

 

[Corti]

Enlightenment is about encouraging others to use their own reason (opposed to believing something without any skepticism). This is essentially the opposite of convincing others of something using emotional strategies. It is what the phrase “sapere aude” actually tries to oppose. I hold this principle in the highest regards.

Yes you're right. But not everyone is enlightened like Siddhartha to see that, most of us are just 'on the road' to enlightenment especially in the West and can be susceptible to manipulation. Just my opinion.

I see, this makes your position saomewhat clearer. Though I would not necessarily say that people “partially enlightened” are more susceptible to manipulation than those living their lives by blindly following others (if this is what you were implying).

 

[Corti]

BTW, we’re very significantly off topic now!

True!

 

[Ryokan]

Enlightenment is about encouraging others to use their own reason (opposed to believing something without any skepticism). This is essentially the opposite of convincing others of something using emotional strategies. It is what the phrase “sapere aude” actually tries to oppose. I hold this principle in the highest regards.



I see, this makes your position saomewhat clearer. Though I would not necessarily say that people “partially enlightened” are more susceptible to manipulation than those living their lives by blindly following others (if this is what you were implying).

When you hear people say we're more enlightened today, especially in the West, I don't think that means the same as a Buddhist knows the phrase. I think our wires are crossing, I'm not putting my point across very clearly.

Yes 24bit, 16 bit good luck hearing the difference.

 

[71 dB]

BTW, we’re very significantly off topic now!

G

Yes we are. It looks like almost everyone here agrees/knows/believes by now that 16 bits is enough in consumer audio. Online discussions tend to happen around disagreements and all of this has been about "scanning" for those areas of disagreement. The role, validation and nature of science is one of the popular topics online. Often it is formulated as religion vs. science, but since we don't talk about religion here, this has been re-formulated into anti-science ( feelers & sensors ) vs. science ( thinkers & intuitives ).

 

[Steve999]

Yes we are. It looks like almost everyone here agrees/knows/believes by now that 16 bits is enough in consumer audio. Online discussions tend to happen around disagreements and all of this has been about "scanning" for those areas of disagreement. The role, validation and nature of science is one of the popular topics online. Often it is formulated as religion vs. science, but since we don't talk about religion here, this has been re-formulated into anti-science ( feelers & sensors ) vs. science ( thinkers & intuitives ).

Enough with the Myers-Briggs lingo already! It’s been debunked almost as throughly as so many audiophile claims and myths!

https://www.psycom.net/myers-briggs-personality-type