[stv014]

 
I can hear the loss, of course. Everyone can hear the artifacts.
...
I will try the test but since ABX tests don't really prove anything other than FUD I'm prepared for my results to fall into your argument.

 
Of course, everyone can imagine the artifacts, as long as they know which sample is which.
 
What do you think about tests where the samples are known to be identical, but the listener is lied to that they are different, and an "audible" difference is detected in a sighted comparison ? If this is possible (and has indeed been done already, for example with a fake switchbox that always selects the same input), then how do you know for sure without ABX testing that your perceived 16 bit or even high bitrate lossy artifacts are real ?

 

[kraken2109]

Those audiopholes believe it's this simple, if it was, i would allready havy done it years ago. One audioidiot site said lossless mp3 and flac...... There ain't no such thing as lossless dig audio. Losless when you trigger it to 0 or 1 say it all and the endresult may sound better, but don't you think they just colored the sound in the dsp . But themain purpose everybody try to do is recreate to cutaway harmonics when started using comprised files... Buy a good audio enhancer and chand the sound until you like it or play records on a good system instead of digital succery. No , the real good cd player until 1990 could play a cd way better then these days, with there toriod and fill metall bi servo drived lasers. But via a pc your sounds sucks if you use the standard lg things. For 2 thousand your cd player sound perfect.... no cambridge stuff....But a soundcart of mine has a phono input and i don't here a lot difference with bitrates, and it ain't a technics 1200, just a normal axiom system and with a preamp between it using line input with another card, you keep a glassy sound but a converter which you buy ain't a studio converter, so gives your upscaling a warmer sound, and as it sounds better, who cares. But the mastering used for the better cd's and vinyl is done by using the tape..... Downside..... the vinyl ain't cheap and to call it hi-fi..... First they overpower cd's and vinyl and when mastered right on heavy vinyl it's hifi...... , def. of hifi.

wat

 

[lamode]

Those audiopholes believe it's this simple, if it was, i would allready havy done it years ago. One audioidiot site said lossless mp3 and flac...... There ain't no such thing as lossless dig audio. Losless when you trigger it to 0 or 1 say it all and the endresult may sound better, but don't you think they just colored the sound in the dsp . But themain purpose everybody try to do is recreate to cutaway harmonics when started using comprised files... Buy a good audio enhancer and chand the sound until you like it or play records on a good system instead of digital succery. No , the real good cd player until 1990 could play a cd way better then these days, with there toriod and fill metall bi servo drived lasers. But via a pc your sounds sucks if you use the standard lg things. For 2 thousand your cd player sound perfect.... no cambridge stuff....But a soundcart of mine has a phono input and i don't here a lot difference with bitrates, and it ain't a technics 1200, just a normal axiom system and with a preamp between it using line input with another card, you keep a glassy sound but a converter which you buy ain't a studio converter, so gives your upscaling a warmer sound, and as it sounds better, who cares. But the mastering used for the better cd's and vinyl is done by using the tape..... Downside..... the vinyl ain't cheap and to call it hi-fi..... First they overpower cd's and vinyl and when mastered right on heavy vinyl it's hifi...... , def. of hifi.

 

 

[Ruben123]

I like this discussion and I like it even more that I can listen to HiFi music through my Samsung i9000 phone with Voodoo kernel. It sounds like magic, and even though it doesnt, it does. I hear it!!
Oh and btw, it's loaded with 16 bit flacs. Excellent combo. I hear birds singing that were NEAR the studio with it's windows closed.

 

[StanD]

  I like this discussion and I like it even more that I can listen to HiFi music through my Samsung i9000 phone with Voodoo kernel. It sounds like magic, and even though it doesnt, it does. I hear it!!
Oh and btw, it's loaded with 16 bit flacs. Excellent combo. I hear birds singing that were NEAR the studio with it's windows closed.

Can you make out what they were saying?

 

[Ruben123]

The bird is the word.
 
lol
 
If you like some fun, head over to the Pono thread. If you believe what they say, you are brought back to the recording studio when listening through that player. Awesome!! They hear it and while no DBT is done they hear it so it must be true.
 
Period!!!

 

[StanD]

  The bird is the word.
 
lol
 
If you like some fun, head over to the Pono thread. If you believe what they say, you are brought back to the recording studio when listening through that player. Awesome!! They hear it and while no DBT is done they hear it so it must be true.
 
Period!!!

Once in awhile I go there for a good laugh. The closest they come to Science is Science Fiction.

 

[cjl]

  No one listens to me, that's cool. Who am I? Let me try to restate the crux of my argument.
 
You can't ABX test for music quality.

So you can't hear music quality?
 
All ABX does is it presents you with two files and asks you to discern the difference by listening. There's no limitation on how long you can listen for it to be a valid test, there's no limitation on what you should be listening for (be it ambience, soundstage, stereo image, or weird artifacts in a particular flute solo). The only requirement is that you listen to the music, and see if you can tell the difference.
 
I find it very strange that people will wax poetically about how "musical" something sounds with a new component/format/etc, and how the change is night and day, and audible with any remotely decent equipment, but when asked a question as simple as "Pick the musical one out of these two samples, and do it consistently", suddenly the difference is so subtle that it can't be done? It doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[cjl]

  1) Any REAL musical sound has two audible parts: The main and first one is a (more or less) periodic function of any form (Let's call it A) and a second one: The natural instrument noise (Not ambient noise), a non periodic function, so without any wave form, just pressure changes following not known rule (Let's call it part B). And is important to say here that, nevertheless, this noise has "its own unknown" rules; for instance, it is different at different frecuencies of part A.

I know this is old at this point, but I wanted to address this...
 
If a part of the music cannot be broken down into periodic frequency components, that means that it is effectively DC. You can't hear this, nor is it reproducible by speakers. Therefore, it doesn't matter. A randomly varying signal can still be described based on its frequency content, and just because you can't see a simple, repeating pattern doesn't mean the signal doesn't contain any frequencies.

 

[StanD]

  I know this is old at this point, but I wanted to address this...
 
If a part of the music cannot be broken down into periodic frequency components, that means that it is effectively DC. You can't hear this, nor is it reproducible by speakers. Therefore, it doesn't matter. A randomly varying signal can still be described based on its frequency content, and just because you can't see a simple, repeating pattern doesn't mean the signal doesn't contain any frequencies.

Just like White, Red and Pink noises have different frequency distributions. I doubt that our friend will acknowledge any of this.

 

[RRod]

  Just like White, Red and Pink noises have different frequency distributions. I doubt that our friend will acknowledge any of this.

 
I bet he could ABX them apart, though ^_^

 

[Ruben123]

Doesn't he just mean the sound the fingers make when touching the guitar is apart from the sound of the guitar itself? I.e. the music.

 

[RRod]

Doesn't he just mean the sound the fingers make when touching the guitar is apart from the sound of the guitar itself? I.e. the music.

 
And we're saying that if we can hear it, it's because it causes disturbances in the air that our ears can pick up, and those disturbances get picked up by microphones too. That means they make it to the ADC, and the parts we can hear get through the anti-aliasing filter and get sample values.

 

[bigshot]

Sound is frequencies.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Sound is frequencies.

So says Fourier.

se