24bit vs 16bit, the myth exploded!
Jul 10, 2018 at 12:10 PM Post #4,921 of 7,175
So in musical performances it's possible (meaning in any reasonable and non-pedantic sense) to exceed a 96 dB dynamic range?
Is a live acoustic performance, yes and no. In one that you might attend, probably no. If you allow deafeningly loud peaks, like real cannons around the audience for the 1812 Overture, perhaps yes. If the whole performance is in an anechoic chamber, and you hold your breath, possibly yes.
If it is amplified, possibly yes.
In a studio, it is possible, but...
I doubt it happens often, if at all.

(I have a can of worms here labelled, "Most people don't understand how to calculate the dynamic range of human hearing". I hope no one opens it, because the short answer is "it is silly to try to find a single number for it")
 
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Jul 10, 2018 at 12:54 PM Post #4,923 of 7,175
A dynamic range in music that broad would be uncomfortable to listen to under any conditions.
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 12:57 PM Post #4,924 of 7,175
I think in the context of Shannon-Nyquist, "perfect" has a different meaning :wink:
Saying "the imperfections of 16-bit are inaudible" is different from saying "16-bits is perfect".

No that isn't different. Nyquist says that waveforms are perfectly reconstructed within the bandwidth of the sampling rate. It doesn't claim to be perfect beyond the range of its sampling rate. If you want super audible frequencies to be reproduced perfectly, you just up the sampling rate.
 
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Jul 10, 2018 at 1:04 PM Post #4,925 of 7,175
No that isn't different. Nyquist says that waveforms are perfectly reconstructed within the bandwidth of the sampling rate. It doesn't claim to be perfect beyond the range of its sampling rate. If you want super audible frequencies to be reproduced perfectly, you just up the sampling rate.


But bit-depth(8, 16, 24, etc) does determine the amount of quantization error/noise. So even if conditions(within the bandwidth of the sampling rate) are met, there will always be 'noise'. 48dB down from full-scale for 8bit, 96dB down from full-scale for 16bit, and so on.
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 1:09 PM Post #4,926 of 7,175
No that isn't different. Nyquist says that waveforms are perfectly reconstructed within the bandwidth of the sampling rate. It doesn't claim to be perfect beyond the range of its sampling rate. If you want super audible frequencies to be reproduced perfectly, you just up the sampling rate.
It is different because of 16 bits, as SonicTruth said, not because of bandwidth/sampling rate issues.
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 1:32 PM Post #4,928 of 7,175

I *think* he meant a RECORDED piece of music with that amount of dynamic range.

96dB total dynamic range is like reserve horsepower - you'll likely only ever use or experience, in a recording, only 4 to 40dB of that. Or like a 100W per channel stereo amp: You may never use more than 30W per channel of it, but thank 'God it's there!'(Rick Harrison, LifeLock) lol!
 
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Jul 10, 2018 at 1:53 PM Post #4,929 of 7,175
1. That's great, it means there's no need whatsoever for dither because quantisation noise is apparently masked. All these decades of dither and dither development wasted ... do you think we should tell someone? :)

2. So now, in effect, you're contradicting yourself because µ-law/A-law are analogue processes!
2a. By your definition, wax cylinders are perceptual coding, vinyl with RIAA are perceptual coding, cassettes with bias are perceptual coding, CDs with emphasis are perceptual encoding, despite your claim in point #1, dither is perceptual coding and therefore pretty much all digital audio uses perceptual coding and every mix of every piece of commercial audio has EQ, mic placement, compression or a number of other factors/processes applied to improve perception. In other words, by your definition, everything uses perceptual coding. So, please answer these two questions: A. What is the point of the term "perceptual coding" if it means the same as "everything" and B. What new/different term should we use for actual perceptual coding?

You're following the exact same path you always follow. You make some incorrect claim/assertion of fact which is refuted and then instead of holding your hand up and admitting it or just dropping it, you defend it to the death for post after post, make more and more ridiculous assertions to support your position, even to the point of contradicting yourself, and dig a deeper and deeper hole for yourself until eventually you back yourself into a logical cul de sac. At which point you usually post something along the lines that you feel like a useless human being. My last question of this post is therefore: Why follow that same path, why put yourself through all this time after time?

G
1. When have I said the quantization noise in µ-law is inaudible? It is partly masked by the signal, of course! Large dynamic range is more important than quantization noise with speech intelligibility. Why do you guys try SO HARD to find errors in what I say? Even using these silly strawmen.

2. Doesn't matter. The end result is 8 bit digital audio.

2a. CDs with emphasis are kind of perceptual.

Whatever!!!!!!!!
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 2:00 PM Post #4,930 of 7,175
If µ-law is not perceptual coding, then WHAT IS IT? Somebody better correct Wikipedia!
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 2:03 PM Post #4,931 of 7,175
I'm fed up fighting here! What is the harm of calling µ-law early perceptual coding? WHAT IS THE FUCVKINFG HARM!!!!????=
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 2:04 PM Post #4,932 of 7,175
I AMSO ANGEYHG
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 2:04 PM Post #4,933 of 7,175
I AM SO FRUSTRATED!!!! ANGRYT!!! DAMN FORUM!!! DAMN BOYS!! MEN!! STUPID!!
 
Jul 10, 2018 at 2:11 PM Post #4,935 of 7,175
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