[phaeton70]

Strangely enough, nobody mentioned the Denon AH-D7200 .... maybe becaue the price it's not in the multi-k$ region.....

when well paired (tubes seem the way to go, particularly those fast, trasparent and linear like a 2A3) these cans are second only to the very top level ones IMHO .....

wrt cans I have or have extensively listened to, I put the Denons second only to Utopia..

a very musical cans, offered at a price which given the current madness, seems just a bargain..

of course, everything above just IMHO and YMMV

 

[obobskivich]

Just to add a bit more:

- Fostex has continued to release/refine the 443742 family through a variety of sources - their own TH-6/9xx line, as well as Massdrop releases, the E-MU (Creative) full-size woodies, and so forth.

- Massdrop in general, who have done a lot of cost-down'd releases of "former flagships" like AH-D5000 (TH-X00), HD 650 (HD 6XX), K701 (K7XX), etc. They also have done collaborations with some equipment makers, like TEAC, Grace, etc (just saw Cavalli Audio on the front page today too).

- Ultrasone has gone back to their "old style" full-size closed cans, re-releasing the Edition 7 as Tribute 7, and offering up the Edition 9 (as Signature Pro) and some variations thereof (as Signature DJ and Signature Studio).

- Audio-Technica has, as pointed out, not done anything really "big" in a year or two - they recently revised all of their headphones with a "Z" variant (including W1000Z), but no 55th anniversary release appears to be on the horizon to follow the ATH-W3000ANV.

- Sennheiser released a new Orpheus-level product, and set a new upper limit for price well into the realm of "hilarious." I've heard talk of a HiFiMan offering that's supposed to get into that mad money category too (we're talking >$50,000/pair here, if you were wondering).

- Grado has released two new full-size open cans - the GS-2000 and PS-2000 - as up-models from what they had previously. Some reviewers seem to really like the PS-2000, but the price (as seems to be the trend) treads into new territory (somewhere around $3000 US from what I've heard). I think GS-2000 is supposed to cost around what the GS-1000 do (did?) though. Haven't heard much of anything about those though.

- Technics "came back" and re-released the SL-1200 (which sold out pretty quickly in the initial run from what I've read), some hilariously expensive amplifiers (which are a faint shadow of their former flagship gear), and a pair of two-way headphones that've gotten pretty polarizing reviews (but hey, they *are* a new/unique design in a world of otherwise stale offerings).

- Denon, apparently realizing that their decision to completely abandon Fostex and "go their own way" was actually a bad idea, have gone back to Fostex-based headphones, and released a new flagship model called AH-D7200 that bears striking resemblance to the 443742 family (and it doesn't cost a million dollars either), but as was pointed out: it doesn't seem to get talked about much. I have no idea if they have attempted to "bring back" the AH-D2000, but I'm sure the community would appreciate it.

- Bowers & Wilkins threw their hat into the circle with the P9; I haven't heard much about them since they were first launched though. They look pretty though.

- Shure released a few high end dynamic cans (SRH-1840 and SRH-1540), as well as (even more recently) an electrostatic in-ear (KSE1500).

- Klipsch is apparently going to take a whack at headphones again (and apparently this time, they mean it).

- STAX apparently has some new headphones coming in the not so far away future, but off hand I don't recall their model designations. There was a thread in Summit-Fi a while back about it.

- Apple bought Beats, and has been pushing for more wireless devices to integrate with the iPhone (which now doesn't feature a headphone jack).

- Sony introduced the Pentaconn connector and has been making noise about balanced headphones for mobile/desktop use. I don't know that anyone is listening though.

- MQA happened (what is MQA? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Quality_Authenticated - the blunt/cynical answer is: Meridian's attempt to become relevant again by bogarting the "hi rez download" industry and making it all proprietary/DRM'd in a way that sees us paying them for existing)

 

[Andrew Rieger]

I haven't personally heard the D7200 but it has received very positive reviews from some of my very trusted sources. I hope to hear one soon.

The upcoming Klipsch HP3 is using a very similar driver from Fostex (tweaked to Klipsch's specs) housed inside semi open wood cups with a new baffle design that pushes the driver a little farther away from the ear. These are supposed to be the most open sounding of the Fostex bio cellulose variants, hopefully without sacrificing too much of the bass extension they are known for.

 

[rgs9200m]

I think there are major breakthroughs in the last few years IMHO, especially if you suffered had ear-bleed-level sonic fatigue. All of the following is subjective.

1. Liked the Senn 650 but found something missing? Try the ZMF Atticus. Just as friendly but with much better resolution, staging, spaciousness and texture. The Eikon is more neutral but with the right cable or warmer amp/dac is also fatigue-free with even more resolution.

2. Liked the LCD2/3 but found it not resolving or closed in a little? The LCD4 had great image definition and openness. Somehow I find it more comfortable than the older LCDs even though it's heavier.

3. Again for those with fear of fatigue and glare: The Sony Z1R manages to avoid screaming digital upper mids and painful vocals with even a non-warm upstream equipment chain, which actually is needed to provide clear firm bass. It's a unique sonic signature with a prominent but very satisfying bass and great separation of musical objects and an expansive soundstage, and you either like it a lot or dislike it a lot, but personally I *love* it with a good clear tube amp (like an Apex) or directly through a Hugo TT.

4. Liked the Hifiman HE500 bout found it a little boring? The HE1000v2 finally got the HE1000 right with nice resolution, silky mids, sweet highs, and pretty good (if not earth-shaking) bass.

5. And although older, there is the Stax SR007 Mk2.5 (the current version) for that uncanny truth and reality-sound where the 4th wall is gone. It's a remarkable balance of transparency and musicality without being shrill. I use a trusty KGSS-HV-mini amp from Birgir that seems tailor-made for the Stax. Great synergy. See-through tight fast bass and speed I just don't hear from any dynamics or mag-planars I have heard. (I'm sure there are better amps, but Birgir's amp seems like a great match and is silent and seems built like a solid block of metal or brick. Silky volume control too. Nothing cheap feeling about this amp.) [I have not gotten the SR009 to avoid some shrillness in vocals especially, but I have not tried everything for it like tube amps. So the SR007 is my choice for Stax.]

All of these to me are major improvements that have just been around for a couple of years (Stax for more) and all are very listenable and musical to me.

After struggling for years with the HD800 and the TH900 and others that were nice but had some fatal flaw that defied tweaking, I am grateful for the newcomers with what to me are genuine advances.

 

[obobskivich]

I haven't personally heard the D7200 but it has received very positive reviews from some of my very trusted sources. I hope to hear one soon.

The upcoming Klipsch HP3 is using a very similar driver from Fostex (tweaked to Klipsch's specs) housed inside semi open wood cups with a new baffle design that pushes the driver a little farther away from the ear. These are supposed to be the most open sounding of the Fostex bio cellulose variants, hopefully without sacrificing too much of the bass extension they are known for.

Not to get into "wild speculation" but that driver (at least in shipped real-world products) can hold its own in terms of low-end response just fine in a fully open environment (source: I've tried it), so I wouldn't be overly worried about that, unless Klipsch manages to botch it up royally elsewhere (anyone else remember the M40?). Certainly something to watch to an extent, but OTOH with TH-900 out there in the world it kinds of leaves me wanting to ask "why though?"

 

[Andrew Rieger]

Certainly something to watch to an extent, but OTOH with TH-900 out there in the world it kinds of leaves me wanting to ask "why though?"

Because the TH-900 treble peak is murderous, almost unlistenable. Also, the 900 is fully closed while the Klipsch is semi-open. Also, the driver is similar but has been tweaked for Klipsch. Think about it, these are the current headphones using variants of the Fostex 50mm 25ohm biocellulose driver: THX00, TH610, TH900 MK2, Nighthawk / Nightowl, EMU Teak and Denon D7200. All of those headphones sound very different from one another so there is no reason to think that the Klipsch will not have its own unique sound relative to the other offerings.

 

[phaeton70]

umh... don't know about the others, but IIRC the Denon is not using a biocellulose driver, instead something called "nano-fiber" tha Denon claims is an in-house Japan developed technology... is that the same as the common Fostex biocellulose?

here https://usa.denon.com/us/product/portableaudio/overear/ahd7200 actually Denon mention the design of the driver is unique, based on the "free edge" design.....

edit: did find some images
while this for example is the TH900 driver

seems actually quite different....
here http://tinyurl.com/y8acvsdp can also be found a comaprison between diffent Fostex-equipped cans with drivers pics... all seem very different from the D7200's....

 

[obobskivich]

Because the TH-900 treble peak is murderous, almost unlistenable.

Keep hearing that claim made - have yet to hear it (or be killed by it) on the cans themselves. Not sure what folks are on about, but I get the sense there's probably a lot of hyperbole and exaggeration at work behind the scenes. Or maybe I died and this is all just a spooky dream...

Also, the 900 is fully closed while the Klipsch is semi-open.

None of the 443742 family are "fully closed" - they're all vented/"semi-open" (lets spare a semantics argument on that phrase); none of them are "fully closed" in the same vein as many studio monitors/EFP headphones (e.g. DT48, DT250, MDR-V6, etc) with a sealed capsule. That's a big part of why their isolation is so bad.

Also, the driver is similar but has been tweaked for Klipsch.

Which could mean anything from it having a custom logo stamped on it to actual changes to the innards. Yes I'm a skeptic at this point - there's too much woo and nonsense in the world of "hi-fi" these days.

Think about it, these are the current headphones using variants of the Fostex 50mm 25ohm biocellulose driver: THX00, TH610, TH900 MK2, Nighthawk / Nightowl, EMU Teak and Denon D7200. All of those headphones sound very different from one another so there is no reason to think that the Klipsch will not have its own unique sound relative to the other offerings.

I'm not sure I'd say "very different" (and you're the first person I've ever heard claiming/implying/etc the AQs are 443742 family members - just because they ship a Foster driver doesn't mean they're part of that family (Foster is a huge company with a probably innumerable product catalog - like Foxconn)). There absolutely are similarities (or a "house sound") to the 443742 family, but yes enclosure design, driver revision, etc does play a role in final sound and I'm not suggesting they're all identical, but they *are* all related (and this has been borne out in measurements/reviews). My original point, however, was that the Fostex driver is just fine in a fully open environment (having been there and done that mod years ago) - there's still plenty of low end - so I wouldn't imagine that in a "more semi open" package it'd have any troubles providing decent low-end.

umh... don't know about the others, but IIRC the Denon is not using a biocellulose driver, instead something called "nano-fiber" tha Denon claims is an in-house Japan developed technology... is that the same as the common Fostex biocellulose?

here https://usa.denon.com/us/product/portableaudio/overear/ahd7200 actually Denon mention the design of the driver is unique, based on the "free edge" design.....

Denon has claimed their 443742 rebadges are "nano-fiber composite" (with literally no other elaboration/detail beyond that) ever since the AH-D2000/5000 came out years ago. I have no idea why,* but they have consistently made that vague claim over the years (along with other claims about the materials/construction of those cans that are often at odds with Fostex/Foster specs and/or reality - anyone remember when they said the AH-D2000 had magnesium cups? or the back-and-forth about the D5000 having "real leather" on them?). "Free Edge" was some marketing line they cooked up when they brought out the AH-D600/7100 - I think what they're trying to hype is that it doesn't have a surround between the dome and the basket (which basically means its like every other headphone driver in the world), but this is all trying to read between the lines in a very sparse marketing blurb.

*If I had to wildly speculate on the above, my guess would be that they want to distance their product from the reliability questions that surround Sony's original biocellulose drivers, and try to differentiate what essentially amounts to a badge engineered product from its "siblings" that are sold by their competitors (like Creative).

 

[dallasmarlow]

New TOTL headphones since you were gone:

ZMF Eikon - $1,300 - Closed back planar hp. Great bass, good resolution, fairly wide soundstage for a closed back.

The eikon has a biocellulose dynamic driver, not planar magnetic

 

[obobskivich]

[images removed for easy reading - go to phaeton70's original post to see images]

while this for example is the TH900 driver

seems actually quite different....
here http://tinyurl.com/y8acvsdp can also be found a comaprison between diffent Fostex-equipped cans with drivers pics... all seem very different from the D7200's....

Perhaps I'm blind but those look pretty similar to me...

Like Tyll points out in the review (I'm not sure if I linked it earlier but its a good read for anyone curious about this family), and like Lawton Audio (and other DIYers) have documented, making changes to that baffle or damping behind the driver can have a real impact on the overall sound, but frankly all of them look pretty similar in terms of the baffle, mounting, etc. Out of genuine curiosity (because I haven't seen much about the new 7200s) - do you have a "front" shot with the pads removed?

EDIT - Nevermind, went and found some more tear-down pictures. Still looks pretty similar to the Fostex/Denon cans I've taken apart (foam ring, baffle plate, driver grille, etc). Certainly there's changes ("development improves the breed" and all that), but there's still a family resemblance, at least from what I'm seeing.