[bobeau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyC I may be off base but I find a comparison between music today and the dark ages travelling bard.

And you don't find this odd? The world is vastly more connected through globalism, the internet, economical intercontinental travel, etc, than it was when the Beatles reigned supreme.

If something is fantastic the fact that it does not make shockwaves seems like a breakdown in the system IMO.

 

[BillyC]

One thing that does scare me though is that as time marches on the more obscure stuff stays obscure because there are less people to recommend it to begin with, and then as their interests change they may forget about it. If it never enters the public consciousness - through radio or whatever - then it has more of a chance of slipping through the cracks.

One example might be that if you talk about depression era blues, unless you talk to a fan, you are most likely to get Robert Johnson and maybe Son House as recommendations. Totally forgetting the other bluesmen and women from Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia etc.

A personal example. I was in Wal-Mart sifting through the 98 cent CD bin and came across a group called Michigan and Smiley. I thought that their name was hilarious and the cover was goofy. I didn't buy it, and me and my friend mocked their silliness all afternoon. I checked them out on allmusic and apparently they were a fairly significant DJ/reggae group in the late 70s early 80s. I had never even heard of them. True I may have discounted them because of the store and the price, but I probably would have picked it up if I had known who they were. By the time I went back it was gone.

I don't really see this as a breakdown. But it is unfortunate that music will be lost to time.

It's mostly a product of all of the leisure time that we have now days, as well as less restrictions on freedom of expression.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyC My personal opinion is that while pop music may be flailing, there has never been a more exciting time to be a music lover. There are so many different types of music to sample. I find all of the sub groups in music interesting even if I don't listen to/ like them. I may be off base but I find a comparison between music today and the dark ages travelling bard. You may never hear all the bards because they never came through your town. You may never be exposed to a type of music, because of your region, or your tastes or the tastes of people around you. What is great about today, is that in most cases if you find out about a type of music you will most likely be able to hear it, where if you missed the bard, you may never have heard him again.

i agree. itunes, amazon and this forum open up a huge world of music i never even checked out - thanks guys!

 

[asmox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobeau The basic purpose of this thread is to examine if the musical world is truly progressing, or is it flailing.

did this thread make a 180 when i wasn't looking?

if you want to know whether the musical world is progressing - the answer is a resounding YES.

i don't really know what else to say. i've mentioned a decent number of artists throughout this thread.. some of which are no longer making music, and some of which are. all of them are responsible for music that is, in one way or another, progressive and innovative.

i will say that based on the recommendations you've been asking for thus far in this thread, my particular mentions may not suit your tastes.. but it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of 'is music progressing?'

yes, it is. more than ever.

 

[asmox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobeau If something is fantastic the fact that it does not make shockwaves seems like a breakdown in the system IMO.

don't forget that musical accessibility is an issue, as well. somebody just coming out from under the radio rock might have some trouble getting into the ultra-technical craft of artists like, say.. Behold... The Arctopus. is it fantastic music? without a doubt (IMO). but for somebody that isn't used to that approach, it might not register.

there's a reason why everything on the radio is 'catchy'.

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox did this thread make a 180 when i wasn't looking?

Well I think you and I maybe have different definitions of progression here... as I also said in that post by my measure the accessibility of great music is a sign of such progression. I look at any sort of art as a social communicant... if great ideas are mere whispers intended for an elite few what are they really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox if you want to know whether the musical world is progressing - the answer is a resounding YES.

I appreciate your opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox i will say that based on the recommendations you've been asking for thus far in this thread, my particular mentions may not suit your tastes.. but it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of 'is music progressing?' yes, it is. more than ever.

Have you noticed we live in the same city? May I ask a big favor - could you let me borrow/rip some things that you might think would open my mind a bit more?

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobeau Have you noticed we live in the same city? May I ask a big favor - could you let me borrow/rip some things that you might think would open my mind a bit more?

You shouldn't add the "rip" part - head-fi doesn't allow such discussions on an open forum, it's the start of a very slippery slope.

 

[dbwinger]

Being that I am within a year of the original poster (28) and live in the same city I'll take a guess at what is going on. As I get older I get pickier with music.

Through high school I mostly listened to MTV stuff with sprinkles of cool **** my older Brother and his friends listened to. When I was in college my musical tastes and preferences started to expand and solidify at the same time. I found some good music. It did take effort and venturing outside radio/TV. I also developed a little snobbery towards music. Not all mainstream stuff is bad, it just doesn't grab me usually.

I listen to a lot of live music and recordings and it is a million times more rewarding to find that band with passion and heart that isn't totally polished and packaged. I think as we get older good music is harder to find as we have a lot of other things going on. Being a somewhat responsible adult takes away from my ability to be as much of a rocker as I want to be.

To hopefully sum this up. As we grow older we have a better grasp on the bigger picture (music-wise) and our thought process toward music changes. It isn't as easy to let yourself go and enjoy music. We are more apt to think for ourselves and not go along with what is cool with our friends (like in high school and college). Without the burden of coolness (peer pressure) we can delve deeper into what we really like about what we are listening to.

My prescription would be to go to Canes tomorrow and rock out to the Black Keys. It will be close to the best $15 you will ever spend (excluding beer and/or ****).

 

[asmox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobeau if great ideas are mere whispers intended for an elite few what are they really?

that's just it.. they aren't intended for an elite few. they are intended for anybody and everybody that chooses to open their ears and take in sounds and ideas that may be unfamiliar to them. in that regard, i guess you could say that they aren't intended for people that are looking for catchiness over substance - but is that really a bad thing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobeau Have you noticed we live in the same city? May I ask a big favor - could you let me borrow/rip some things that you might think would open my mind a bit more?

absolutely.. should work that out in PM's, though.

 

[s m @]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobeau If I can find something on the level of quality of say Repeater, I'll be ecstatic...I'm fairly depressed with what I've found "Classic Rock" was meant....not as a radio format but as music that lives on in the social conscience. indie bands, while...good, are more doing a lo-fi Pavement kinda thing or trying to just be too experimental/random without applying a strong focus to basic songwriting."

You seem to be going back and forth between looking for something that you personally like, and looking for stuff that both you like and is popular (and will remain so). I don't really know what to say except to suggest sticking with the first approach. As far as the second goes, you can either start trying to love what's popular, or start a grassroots campaign to raise awareness of your favourite albums to and make them more popular. Either of which would be a waste of time. I mean, I assume you know what's selling today, and the precedent is that it's unlikely that stuff from this era that no one's heard of now will be huge in 20 years.

As far as what you say of indie bands, I can tell you there's a lot of good and bad in that group, but it seems like you might be dismissing some of them b/c they're not currently popular in the mainstream. I only say that b/c you mention Pavement as being willfully obscure and 'lo-fi', but really only one of their five albums could be termed at all 'lo-fi'. So I don't know if you've actually given them a chance. 'Crooked Rain' sounds as 'classic rock' as any vital music ever should/could in that era, IMO.

I think that the past... time has weeded some stuff out and made it seem like the situation was a little different than it probably was. I don't think that everyone back then was listening to bands that I would consider good. I'm sure there was lots of radio crap around..... I think the only era (IMO again, I wasn't there) where you might argue that the overall quality of mainstream music was significantly better than any other was maybe the late 60s/early 70s. And that was due to the rare confluence of major social pressures and new drugs.

Quote:

If something is fantastic the fact that it does not make shockwaves seems like a breakdown in the system IMO.

I could argue all day that the system is broken, but at the end of the day people get what they want. Which is fine. But implicitly implied in the above sentence is that you're equating 'fantastic' with 'popular', and that I can't help you with. Sorry this isn't help really, but I can't change what people listen to these days.

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn You shouldn't add the "rip" part - head-fi doesn't allow such discussions on an open forum, it's the start of a very slippery slope.

Sorry, did not know. Figured if folks were talking about downloading music (for preview sake) it would fit the same mold.

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox that's just it.. they aren't intended for an elite few. they are intended for anybody and everybody that chooses to open their ears and take in sounds and ideas that may be unfamiliar to them.

But still, one must do more footwork to find the quality stuff today than yesteryear, no? And then people are lazier than ever... I mean it's a bit like the socio-economic divide in the Katrina aftermath, those who could afford cars/fuel got out, those who didn't... it may seem natural how things got to that state, but it still is indicative of a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox in that regard, i guess you could say that they aren't intended for people that are looking for catchiness over substance - but is that really a bad thing?

I dunno, unlesss we're talking about say manufactured pop I don't see things in black and white like that. I used to, very much so in highschool (back when I only listened to Fugazi, Dino J, etc and hated Pearl Jam). Going back to the original examples in this thread, White Stripes and Modest Mouse seem respectable bands, not industry confections. Just overrated IMO. I only see a good song is a good song. Usually one that has traits that make it stand out and memorable and dig its claws into you one way or another. I love hooks, melodies, space, bloom/dynamics, soaring bridges, inventive chord structures, unusual codas, interesting vocals, cool guitar tone, witty lyrics and I particularly love to cram as many possible into the same song. I don't look to musicians for life's lessons, nor do I really care how they conduct their private lives. Frank Black going off on UFOs is just as entertaining to me as Donald Fagen pining for a teenager.

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox absolutely.. should work that out in PM's, though.

Cool... well then you have a PM on the way.

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by s m @ You seem to be going back and forth between looking for something that you personally like, and looking for stuff that both you like and is popular (and will remain so).

I'd hope that they could be one and the same

. I'm just on a quest to prove myself wrong. If I find new music I truly love that will be one step. But I'm also quite intersted in what others think on this.

Quote:

So I don't know if you've actually given them a chance. 'Crooked Rain' sounds as 'classic rock' as any vital music ever should/could in that era, IMO.

Will do. Honestly I think I have a box set from them that was supposed to get high marks, listened to it a half dozen times and sorta let it slide. Which is probably unfair as I do like Sebadoh a bit, so I certainly dimiss anyone for 'lo-finess'.

Quote:

I think the only era (IMO again, I wasn't there) where you might argue that the overall quality of mainstream music was significantly better than any other was maybe the late 60s/early 70s. And that was due to the rare confluence of major social pressures and new drugs.

I agree wholeheartedly. But still in that era's wake there was punk/new wave/metal that I find superior to that at the fore of today.

Quote:

I could argue all day that the system is broken, but at the end of the day people get what they want.

Well, what someone wants is a relative thing. If they're used to schlock, schlock is what they want. I don't think people are stupid or mindless. They're just products of their environment.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobeau Sorry, did not know. Figured if folks were talking about downloading music (for preview sake) it would fit the same mold.

yep there's a diff tween a 20 second preview offered by itunes or amazon, and downloading the full song off a P2P, or ripping it from a CD that you don't own. regardless if you do it or not, head-fi doesn't condone talking about it

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbwinger We are more apt to think for ourselves and not go along with what is cool with our friends (like in high school and college). Without the burden of coolness (peer pressure) we can delve deeper into what we really like about what we are listening to.

Right, not only can I listen to stuff that's uncool, I actually might respect it... fwiw, I didn't listen to The Beatles until about 4 years ago. Quite frankly I couldn't stand them. I'd never known anyone of my age who liked them, or at least outwardly talked them up. But on a whim I bought Revolver cause I was sick of being sick of them. I had to at least try to understand why they were so revered. Now they are the measuring stick by which I judge all other music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbwinger My prescription would be to go to Canes tomorrow and rock out to the Black Keys. It will be close to the best $15 you will ever spend (excluding beer and/or ****).

Heh, thanks for the tip. I'll look 'em up.