[cel4145]

It has been a long time since I have read that article. But it seems to me that the point was that the difference was not significant, not that there was no difference. That is a subjective determination that is listener dependent.

2nd, the onboard audio implementation is dependent on the board implementation, other hardware, etc. Thus, everyone's mileage may vary with their system.

So the article is what it is for the people that did the listening and the system being used, but no more. It does not prove that the results are statistically generalizable, but that doesn't make the results wrong. Just context specific.

 

[DarKu]

 
I don't hear a difference because they aren't there.  You need to do bias controlled listening tests.  Not just sighted comparisons.

 
 

  I didn't read the article but I have done hundreds of bias controlled listening tests on DAC's over a period of a couple of years.  I can say confidently that the measured differences in specifications among the various DAC's aren't audible differences.  If you want to improve sound quality you need look after transducers and room acoustics.  Buying expensive DAC's has its purposes but sound quality isn't one of them.

 
I don't want to be rude with you, but...welcome to my ignore list, I cannot stand more of this non-sense.
I will never trust tomshardware again, people that did the tests are completely deaf, I'm actually pretty shocked that they used HD800 and not some cheap headphones that surely sound exactly as HD800.

 

[blades]

   
 
 
I don't want to be rude with you, but...welcome to my ignore list, I cannot stand more of this non-sense.
I will never trust tomshardware again, people that did the tests are completely deaf, I'm actually pretty shocked that they used HD800 and not some cheap headphones that surely sound exactly as HD800.

 
Thank you. I think will be far more comfortable there.

 

[citraian]

Anyone that states there are no differences between DACs falls into one or more of the following categories:
1. Is trolling
2. Is deaf
3. Has a really really bad audio memory
4. Doesn't have any experience with DACs whatsoever and doesn't even remotely understand how DACs work
5. Has a really good wallet defense system

 

[blades]

  Anyone that states there are no differences between DACs falls into one or more of the following categories:
1. Is trolling
2. Is deaf
3. Has a really really bad audio memory
4. Doesn't have any experience with DACs whatsoever and doesn't even remotely understand how DACs work
5. Has a really good wallet defense system

 
You misunderstand Nobody says there are no differences between DAC's.  What I say is that there is no audible difference between DAC's.  If engage in some properly administered bias controlled listening tests, you will say the same thing.

 

[barid]

   
You misunderstand Nobody says there are no differences between DAC's.  What I say is that there is no audible difference between DAC's.  If engage in some properly administered bias controlled listening tests, you will say the same thing.

I think he understands your point just fine.  and does not agree.

 

[Happy Camper]

[COLOR=FF00AA]Sure. If you don't believe it, ask the science forum.........[/COLOR]

 

[dan.gheorghe]

You misunderstand Nobody says there are no differences between DAC's.  What I say is that there is no audible difference between DAC's.  If engage in some properly administered bias controlled listening tests, you will say the same thing.

This message shows that you are in the first category from citraian's list. You keep saying bias control testing. All that you proved is that your methods are fundamentaly wrong.

As i wrote in one of my articles :
http://headmania.org/audiophile-headphone-buyer-guide/audiophile-and-proud/

As I said before we rely most on our vision, so the hearing is not our best sensory input, thus most of us don’t have a very good audio memory. This is an interesting test for audio (rhythm) memory. If you score badly and cannot tell the differences between different rhythms, it will be very hard to tell the differences between some audio gear ( as soundstage, details, dynamics, transients differences are harder to distinguish than rhythm changes). However, in time your audio memory gets better and your ears more sensible to these aspects.

This may be one of the main reasons this hobby grows on you in time.

You may also want to join the Philips Golden Ears Challenge which has very good training and tests. I have passed all the tests and received the “Golden Ears” award. I thought it was fun and actually quite helpful.

I am really curious how well the people participated in the tests would do at the rhythm and golden ears tests.

If they score badly....your tests were useless.

 

[citraian]

You misunderstand Nobody says there are no differences between DAC's.  What I say is that there is no audible difference between DAC's.  If engage in some properly administered bias controlled listening tests, you will say the same thing.

I didn't misunderstand anything. Just add audible in there and my point is still valid.
Just by curiousity, what tests did you make?

 

[blades]

Listening tests in which the listener has to compare two units without know which is playing at a given time.  It is called a bias controlled test because it takes hearing bias out of the picture.  I won't waste any more of your time with details.  It's pretty obvious nobody here has any experience with it or is even interested in the subject.

 

[citraian]

Do give more details on which equipment was used.

 

[dan.gheorghe]

Listening tests in which the listener has to compare two units without know which is playing at a given time.  It is called a bias controlled test because it takes hearing bias out of the picture.  I won't waste any more of your time with details.  It's pretty obvious nobody here has any experience with it or is even interested in the subject.

Again ... read my post. Apparently neither do you ).......also did blind ( biased controlled ) tests with positive results...but the people used in the tests had good audio memory and experience with the units they were using. but this conversation became pointless so i won't loose any more time with false tests and bad info put in a missguiding article.

And it is not so much about the interest on this subject and experience of the people here and all over the world. It's just your experience and your word against many other experienced users...and also the arrogance of thinking everybody else is wrong.

 

[blades]

OK, you've run me off.  Take care.

 

[citraian]

So one of the categories you fell in was the troll one. At least that's what it looks like to me

 

[blades]

Think whatever you like.  I have no motivation to explain myself because I'm obviously not welcome here.  But thanks for the insult.