[Bleether]

Greetings,
 
First of all i would like to say that i am so happy i have discovered this forum. I have been reading through several posts, and you guys do a wonderful job at helping people out. I have already learned so much from all of you, and my audio listening experience has improved dramatically.
 
So lets begin with the basics. I have a laptop with an integrated sound card produces really low quality audio. I find all the different products available so overwhelming, and i have no clue where to begin. So first of all let me give you My computers specs, head phone specs, and my listening habits.
 
Computer:
Asus g53sx
Windows 7 Professional
Intel core i7 2760qm
Nvidia geforce gtx 560 m 2gb
12 GB ram
Dual 500 gb 7200 rpm hd
 
Headphones:
Audio Technica ath-m50s
 
Audio needs:
Music, movies, gaming on my laptop.
 
Budget: Less than $150 usd
 
Portability: Mostly used with my laptop. I may use it with ipod but that is optional.
 
Basically my old school iphone 3g pumps out power and better quality sound than my laptop does. I dont know how this is possible, but i would greatly appreciate some opinions on what options i can consider.
 

 

[NA Blur]

It comes down to three things for me for computer listening.
 
1.)  The DAC chip used internally or externally must be quiet, have low distortion ( .005% or less ).
2.)  The output power must be great enough to drive the headphone system you are using.  The same would go for a speaker system.
3.)  How does the electrical power train run through your computer and does it add noise to the audio,
 
My computer has a decent soundcard and it does not come anywhere close to silent compared to my Grace m903 or even my Bithead.  For me the audio from the headphone jack on my PC is filled with hiss and the various bleep bloops that the CPU and mouse generate.  Add in some distortion at normal listening levels and my soundcard days were over.  Investing in a good USB DAC made a huge difference.  It works around the DAC on the soundcard or internal soundcard card in your case, and does the DAC process on its own.  Now each operating system has its own limits and audio process CODEC, but the USB DAC will certainly be cleaner and separate from the electrical power train.  For $150 you could invest in a Total Bithead from Headphone.com and probably improve your listening experience 10 fold.  Using a DAC that has its own power supply will improve this even more.
 
I know the policy at Headphone.com is that if you are not absolutely satisfied you have something like a 30-day return duration.  I would say try that and report back with your findings.  I will bet your listening woes will be greatly lessened.

 

[blairfrischx]

NA Blur is completely correct. The inside of a computer is a very hostile environment for an analog audio signal. Especially within the not-at-all-shielded confines of a laptop, there is a ton of interference bouncing around in there. I know that I also have this problem with my very expensive laptop, and I suspect that most anyone will also say the same thing.
 
If you are looking to be even cheaper that the Total Bithead, you could look into the NuForce uDAC as well.

 

[Skidood]

Wow....here's some help that might acually fit your situation.
 
Laptop headphone outputs arent really up to the same level as those headphones you have.  I use earbuds that sound fantastic to me, and with those my laptop headphone out sound quality is fine. I think your headphones could use a better amp that can handle their impedance and drive them to the levels they are capable of. If you dont want to replace your headphones with, say, good buds, then you will ahve to drive them with a DAC or a different amp. FWIW, J River MC  has some nice settings designed for headphones that do seem to boost the power level a bit.

 

[Bleether]

Quote:

It comes down to three things for me for computer listening.
 
1.)  The DAC chip used internally or externally must be quiet, have low distortion ( .005% or less ).
2.)  The output power must be great enough to drive the headphone system you are using.  The same would go for a speaker system.
3.)  How does the electrical power train run through your computer and does it add noise to the audio,
 
My computer has a decent soundcard and it does not come anywhere close to silent compared to my Grace m903 or even my Bithead.  For me the audio from the headphone jack on my PC is filled with hiss and the various bleep bloops that the CPU and mouse generate.  Add in some distortion at normal listening levels and my soundcard days were over.  Investing in a good USB DAC made a huge difference.  It works around the DAC on the soundcard or internal soundcard card in your case, and does the DAC process on its own.  Now each operating system has its own limits and audio process CODEC, but the USB DAC will certainly be cleaner and separate from the electrical power train.  For $150 you could invest in a Total Bithead from Headphone.com and probably improve your listening experience 10 fold.  Using a DAC that has its own power supply will improve this even more.
 
I know the policy at Headphone.com is that if you are not absolutely satisfied you have something like a 30-day return duration.  I would say try that and report back with your findings.  I will bet your listening woes will be greatly lessened.

I dont have any issues with my computer distorting sound that comes out of my headphones. I have tested various different songs and games, and i get a clean sound but it sounds really under powered compared to my iphone 3g.
 
I have no clue what a DAC is, but i plan on doing some research on it tonight so i can learn the terminology, and thanks for recomending the Total Bithead. I added it to my list of products to review. I will definitely give you an update on which product i buy.


Quote:

NA Blur is completely correct. The inside of a computer is a very hostile environment for an analog audio signal. Especially within the not-at-all-shielded confines of a laptop, there is a ton of interference bouncing around in there. I know that I also have this problem with my very expensive laptop, and I suspect that most anyone will also say the same thing.
 
If you are looking to be even cheaper that the Total Bithead, you could look into the NuForce uDAC as well.

Thanks blair, i have added this to my list as well.


Quote:

Wow....here's some help that might acually fit your situation.
 
Laptop headphone outputs arent really up to the same level as those headphones you have.  I use earbuds that sound fantastic to me, and with those my laptop headphone out sound quality is fine. I think your headphones could use a better amp that can handle their impedance and drive them to the levels they are capable of. If you dont want to replace your headphones with, say, good buds, then you will ahve to drive them with a DAC or a different amp. FWIW, J River MC  has some nice settings designed for headphones that do seem to boost the power level a bit.

Skidood, yeah i definitely want to use my over the ear headphone. Ear buds are great, but i personally dont find them comfortable. I often go 2+ hours with my headphones on so comfort is a big deal for me.
 
 
I know the FIIO e series products are often talked about on this forums, so i just wanted to briefly know how these products compare to the ones mentioned above.
 
I also went to my local electronics store and the sales rep told me that the http://us.store.creative.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-XFi-Go-Pro/M/B0044DEDC0.htmm is one of the best products money can buy for my situation ?
 

 

[Roller]

Bleether, considering your budget, there are already quite a few options to consider. For music listening purposes alone, FiiO E10 and E17 are good products for their price, HRT MusicStreamer as well, and you have products that aren't of as high quality as the previous, but are more versatile in their usage scenarios, namely games and movies. Creative X-Fi Go (the non "Pro" version since it's superior), Creative X-Fi Surround 5.1 (again, the regular version for the same reasons), Creative X-Fi HD USB and Asus Xonar U3 are options to consider if you plan on doing general purpose audio listening.
 
You will see many products that are DACs, amps and DAC-Amp combos. Think of DACs as sound cards, while amplifiers do what their name implies, giving more power to the gear that's plugged to the amp, both allowing for higher volumes and better control and definition of sound.
 
EDIT: Just so you understand a bit better, devices like Creative X-Fi Go and Asus Xonar U3 (both devices are on the same level) are very much entry products, not being considered audiophile products by many, as they are geared for different purposes, the X-Fi Go for gaming and the Xonar U3 for movies, respectively.
You will find that your notion of audio hardware pricing might change quite drastically if you hang around

 

[Bleether]

Quote:

Bleether, considering your budget, there are already quite a few options to consider. For music listening purposes alone, FiiO E10 and E17 are good products for their price, HRT MusicStreamer as well, and you have products that aren't of as high quality as the previous, but are more versatile in their usage scenarios, namely games and movies. Creative X-Fi Go (the non "Pro" version since it's superior), Creative X-Fi Surround 5.1 (again, the regular version for the same reasons), Creative X-Fi HD USB and Asus Xonar U3 are options to consider if you plan on doing general purpose audio listening.
 
You will see many products that are DACs, amps and DAC-Amp combos. Think of DACs as sound cards, while amplifiers do what their name implies, giving more power to the gear that's plugged to the amp, both allowing for higher volumes and better control and definition of sound.
 
EDIT: Just so you understand a bit better, devices like Creative X-Fi Go and Asus Xonar U3 (both devices are on the same level) are very much entry products, not being considered audiophile products by many, as they are geared for different purposes, the X-Fi Go for gaming and the Xonar U3 for movies, respectively.
You will find that your notion of audio hardware pricing might change quite drastically if you hang around

Your advice is much appreciated! I feel that i am starting to at least get a sense of at least what i am suppose to be looking for now. Although i do enjoy gaming a lot, i am not at the level where i feel that i would rather have a device that is more geared towards gaming rather than music.
 
Ideally i would want something that would be a good all around product for Music, gaming, and movies, But if i had to set a priority on what i need it would be #1 music #2 gaming #3 movies.
 
I have a feeling i am in for a new expensive addiction !

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Your advice is much appreciated! I feel that i am starting to at least get a sense of at least what i am suppose to be looking for now. Although i do enjoy gaming a lot, i am not at the level where i feel that i would rather have a device that is more geared towards gaming rather than music.
 
Ideally i would want something that would be a good all around product for Music, gaming, and movies, But if i had to set a priority on what i need it would be #1 music #2 gaming #3 movies.
 
I have a feeling i am in for a new expensive addiction !

Well, you are indeed in for a quite expensive vice, no doubt, if you let upgraditis hit you hard
 
The thing with gaming audio support is that you either fully have it or you just have very base and rudimentary support from other cards. There are two cards that have a good gaming audio feature set and already have a good audio output quality, namely the Creative X-Fi Surround 5.1 (non-Pro) and the Creative X-Fi HD USB. The first one supports 5.1 and has a bit more connectivity options than the second that only supports stereo but has a higher quality output. Both share the same gaming audio feature set. Considering your priority order, those seem to be the logical options, everything else you might find will either be better or worse, sound quality wise, but regarding gaming support will be inferior. Please do note that I'm merely talking about external cards, since the best gaming audio support is only found on internal sound cards.
Keep in mind that those external sound cards can make up for a more complete solution if you add a headphone amplifier in order to fully power your ATH-M50s, although those headphones are known to be easy to drive.
 
Since you're just starting on the whole audio area, you might not want to spend too much at once, although there are some people who take a deep dive at first. Honestly I think you should start getting used to higher SQ than what you've been used to so far, and climb the audio ladder at your own pace.
 
And in case no one at Head-Fi told you this yet, "Sorry for your wallet"

 

[Bleether]

Quote:

Well, you are indeed in for a quite expensive vice, no doubt, if you let upgraditis hit you hard
 
The thing with gaming audio support is that you either fully have it or you just have very base and rudimentary support from other cards. There are two cards that have a good gaming audio feature set and already have a good audio output quality, namely the Creative X-Fi Surround 5.1 (non-Pro) and the Creative X-Fi HD USB. The first one supports 5.1 and has a bit more connectivity options than the second that only supports stereo but has a higher quality output. Both share the same gaming audio feature set. Considering your priority order, those seem to be the logical options, everything else you might find will either be better or worse, sound quality wise, but regarding gaming support will be inferior. Please do note that I'm merely talking about external cards, since the best gaming audio support is only found on internal sound cards.
Keep in mind that those external sound cards can make up for a more complete solution if you add a headphone amplifier in order to fully power your ATH-M50s, although those headphones are known to be easy to drive.
 
Since you're just starting on the whole audio area, you might not want to spend too much at once, although there are some people who take a deep dive at first. Honestly I think you should start getting used to higher SQ than what you've been used to so far, and climb the audio ladder at your own pace.
 
And in case no one at Head-Fi told you this yet, "Sorry for your wallet"

My wallet can suffer as long as my ears are happy =)
 
Prior to buying my ATH-M50's last week, i was using a pair of skull candy headphone for about 3 years that i had purchased at a swamp meet for 5 dollars. I never realized that i was subjecting my ears to torture until i decided to buy my M50's. Now that i have my new headphones, i notice a difference in sound quality when i plug then into my ipod vs laptop. Now i am on a mission to give my ears what i have been depriving them.
 
i re-read my post, and i just realized i worded it wrong. What i meant to say was that i prefer something that will improve music quality over gaming. I dont game enough for me to notice the subtleties that a device geared to gaming might provide. So in essence i want something thats going to make music sound amazing over gaming.
 
 

 

[Roller]

Quote:

My wallet can suffer as long as my ears are happy =)
 
Prior to buying my ATH-M50's last week, i was using a pair of skull candy headphone for about 3 years that i had purchased at a swamp meet for 5 dollars. I never realized that i was subjecting my ears to torture until i decided to buy my M50's. Now that i have my new headphones, i notice a difference in sound quality when i plug then into my ipod vs laptop. Now i am on a mission to give my ears what i have been depriving them.
 
i re-read my post, and i just realized i worded it wrong. What i meant to say was that i prefer something that will improve music quality over gaming. I dont game enough for me to notice the subtleties that a device geared to gaming might provide. So in essence i want something thats going to make music sound amazing over gaming.
 
 

That's a good philosophy to have here, but keep your desires in check or your wallet might be hurt more than it can heal
 
Well, all things considered, I might have to suggest you the FiiO E17, which is right at the top of your budget limit, but it's a quality DAC-Amp combo, meaning you have two devices in one, significantly improving the sound quality output over your current onboard audio chip (most are terrible, and virtually all are worse than the most basic audiophile sound card), as well as providing additional amplification for your headphones.

 

[Sil3nce]

Bleether, considering your budget, there are already quite a few options to consider. For music listening purposes alone, FiiO E10 and E17 are good products for their price, HRT MusicStreamer as well, and you have products that aren't of as high quality as the previous, but are more versatile in their usage scenarios, namely games and movies. Creative X-Fi Go (the non "Pro" version since it's superior), Creative X-Fi Surround 5.1 (again, the regular version for the same reasons), Creative X-Fi HD USB and Asus Xonar U3 are options to consider if you plan on doing general purpose audio listening.

You will see many products that are DACs, amps and DAC-Amp combos. Think of DACs as sound cards, while amplifiers do what their name implies, giving more power to the gear that's plugged to the amp, both allowing for higher volumes and better control and definition of sound.

EDIT: Just so you understand a bit better, devices like Creative X-Fi Go and Asus Xonar U3 (both devices are on the same level) are very much entry products, not being considered audiophile products by many, as they are geared for different purposes, the X-Fi Go for gaming and the Xonar U3 for movies, respectively.
You will find that your notion of audio hardware pricing might change quite drastically if you hang around

This essentially, I would recommend you the Hrt Music Streamer 2, the audinst mx1 for its pre-existing amp, and audio gb offerings.

 

[Bleether]

Quote:

That's a good philosophy to have here, but keep your desires in check or your wallet might be hurt more than it can heal
 
Well, all things considered, I might have to suggest you the FiiO E17, which is right at the top of your budget limit, but it's a quality DAC-Amp combo, meaning you have two devices in one, significantly improving the sound quality output over your current onboard audio chip (most are terrible, and virtually all are worse than the most basic audiophile sound card), as well as providing additional amplification for your headphones.

I just googled the E17, although i am not an expert this device looks legit. Seems small, portable, can be used with my computer + ipod. It seems that i can not find a vendor that has it in stock ?

 

[PhoebeFairchild]

I own the HeadRoom Total BitHead and I used to own the NuForce uDAC-2 HP. I would recommend the NuForce uDAC-2 HP at $99.00 USD which you can buy it from Amazon. It produces a dead silent background and it creates a very clean sound. If reproducing music is your top priority, then this would be a good entry level recommendation. It will give you a taste of the high end and you can make a determination if you want your Asus laptop to be your source component or if you want to delve deeper into more traditional high end audio components such as CD players, headphone amplifiers, loudspeakers, power amplifiers, and headphones. I believe that simplicity is preferred to complex designs and the NuForce produced a cleaner sound than the HeadRoom Total BitHead. Get the Total BitHead if you want to power two headphones or earphones and you need cross feed. The NuForce uDAC-2 HP can accept up to 24bit/96kHz signals so it will work for DVD-Audio and DVD-Video source materials. Don't spend any more money until you make a firm commitment to get more involved in this hobby. You can make a lot of terribly expensive mistakes that you will regret. I have done so myself.

 

[Sil3nce]

I own the HeadRoom Total BitHead and I used to own the NuForce uDAC-2 HP. I would recommend the NuForce uDAC-2 HP at $99.00 USD which you can buy it from Amazon. It produces a dead silent background and it creates a very clean sound. If reproducing music is your top priority, then this would be a good entry level recommendation. It will give you a taste of the high end and you can make a determination if you want your Asus laptop to be your source component or if you want to delve deeper into more traditional high end audio components such as CD players, headphone amplifiers, loudspeakers, power amplifiers, and headphones. I believe that simplicity is preferred to complex designs and the NuForce produced a cleaner sound than the HeadRoom Total BitHead. Get the Total BitHead if you want to power two headphones or earphones and you need cross feed. The NuForce uDAC-2 HP can accept up to 24bit/96kHz signals so it will work for DVD-Audio and DVD-Video source materials. Don't spend any more money until you make a firm commitment to get more involved in this hobby. You can make a lot of terribly expensive mistakes that you will regret. I have done so myself.

I'm pretty sure the hrt music streamer 2 blows the udac2 out of the water for around the same price in terms of dac standalone, that is, the latter is not a very neutral or transparent dac.. An audinst mx1 or a fiio e17 would be better for the amp/preamp/dac combo.

 

[PhoebeFairchild]

Have you ever heard either one?
 
Your profile indicates that you have not.
 
I have not heard the HRT music streamer 2 so I will not comment.
 
Please only make qualitative comments based on what you currently own or have owned in the past preferably with side by side comparisons if you owned all of these products at the same time.
 
The NuForce uDAC2-HP has produces one of the cleanest signals of any budget USB DAC and headphone amplifier that I have heard. It is a good value for the money in terms of price to performance ratio. I owned it for at least six months along with my HeadRoom Total BitHead so I can make my recommendations based upon pretty extensive listening tests.