12ax7 and 5751 tube hunters... caveat emptor!

[Nick Dangerous]

Tell me what you think of the new ones. I currently use the JJ EL84's, and in the past I've used the Sovteks but they sounded a bit sterile.

 

[Blasyrkh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous Tell me what you think of the new ones. I currently use the JJ EL84's, and in the past I've used the Sovteks but they sounded a bit sterile.

I ordered the groove tube EL84 too....

i'll write impressions as soon as i can, consider 2 weeks for the shipping time, and the time to burn them in properly...it will take a month i think

 

[djbnh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pageman99 I won't go into details. I'll save that for a long post on each tube later. But I will say in my exhaustively researched opinion, most of Joe's Tube Lore is simply wrong for most folks.

I have found that system synergy is integral to tube rolling. That's an interesting generalization re: "simply wrong for most folks", and in the words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

In my speakered system, with my components, in my JD-100 cdp, Joe's Tube Lore pretty much nailed things re: 12AX7s and 5751s. If you like, go to my A-Gon system and there's some brief notes regarding my tube rolling adventures. As an aside, one of the more interesting bang-for-buck experiences I had was the purchase, in a local antique store, of a minty NOS pair of GE JAN 5751 blackplates for $4; the flavor they imparted to the music in my JD-100, with my gear, was preferable to a number of other tubes I see persons spend beaucoup $ on. Synergy, synergy, synergy....

 

[Nick Dangerous]

Initial impressions:

Raytheon 5751 blackplate w/windmill getter is #1
JJ ECC83 is #2 (for now)
Sovtek 12ax7LPS is #3 (for now)

Although MUCH better than previous versions, the new Sovtek tube still has that characteristic "dry" sound. It is strange that every Sovtek tube I've auditioned (EL84, 12ax7, 5751, and 2A3) has this "sterile" quality that detracts from the silky lush goodness I've come to expect from tube audio. Still, the 12ax7LPS is a very well-balanced tube with kicking bass and clean highs. Definitely worth trying.

The JJ ECC83 (not ECC83S) is the current production tube that has me scratching my head in disbelief. I HATED this tube in 2002, but now it sounds great. It is warm, lush, and alive in the midrange. However, it isn't quite as detailed nor as strong in the bass as the 12AX7LPS. For now, I'm edging it into second place, but I need more time to evaluate it properly.

Raytheon blackplate windmill 5751 is still the best. Deep bass, shimmering highs, outstanding midrange. This is the #1 NOS tube I recommend for the MG Head OTL, because finding a genuine vintage Sylvania is difficult and costs too much for what you get.

I have a pair of Westinghouse EL84's on order and will post my impressions once I receive them.

 

[braillediver]

If you can get one try the GE 6072A triple mica black plate. It's a fast and detailed tube. Real nice. A friend recommended it over the Raytheon 5751 blackplate w/windmill getter.

The finest tube I ever heard in the MG Head and other amps that use a 12AX7 type tube was the Sylvania 5751 Gold brand 2 mica, grey plate.

They’re odd to me because they have a disk getter. But I think these are later production. I got them from a radio guy who had no reason to misrepresent them.

When I first got them I thought they were fakes but the sound will remove any doubt. Those tubes are just amazing. The price is amazing too.


Mitch

 

[deez]

woops. this was supposed to be its own thread. sry

 

[Blasyrkh]

nick, yoiu should try the 12ax7 Electro Harmonix, you'll see how close to nos these tubes are!

 

[Nick Dangerous]

Which version of the EH do you mean? I've tried one of their 12ax7's in the past, and it sounded quite harsh to my ears.

 

[Blasyrkh]

it's the 12AX7EH, and i think it's the only one...but there's a gold pin version too

 

[Voodoochile]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous Whatever the case, they sucked.

Sounds like those Dyson vacuum tubes, Nick.

Smoking deal on the MG Head!

 

[Meyvn]

All I can say is, thank God I like Electro-Harmonix. Cheap, reliable, large supply. =D

 

[Blasyrkh]

ok, the first "batch" of tubes arrived 3 days ago...electro harmonix EL84 and Sovteck 12ax7LPS

first of all I want to underline that I'm using the hd650, that compared to the
hd600 it should be more bassy, less harsh in the mids and highs, and more warm...so the tubes i find are the best for hd650 maybe different from the ones best for hd600. i'm trying to find the best compromise between space and lushness...i don't want a sound too liquid or heavy, nor a sound too light and airy


first of all let's talk about the JJ EL84...i find them the best sounding tubes when compare to the sovteks...but JJs have a big problem to my hears...they are veiled, claustrophobic and not airy and "spatial".
EH are much more airy, the headstage is wider,and are brighter (much sparkle in the lower/upper trebles). the low end is as punchy as the JJs, the midrange is lush but slightly less armonically complex than the JJs, highs are more present and can reveal record's harshness. they are quite sibilant in the beginning, it disappears after burn in.

12ax7lps is a quite good sounding and well balanced tube, but it can be non as warm and liquid as other tubes (sylvania or electro harmonix or rca), but with the hd650 works quite good, because other tubes may sometimes get too "heavy" sounding.

they impressed me quite much, expecially the EH EL84 that will be the replacement of the JJs until i'll find something better (maybe the EI elite), and

 

[Nick Dangerous]

Second round impressions:

Raytheon 5751 blackplate w/windmill getter
Sovtek 12AX7LPS
JJ ECC803S
Ei Elite 12AX7E
JJ ECC83
Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EH

Let's start from the bottom up:

#6 - Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EH

I gotta agree with the guitar amp freaks on this one. It's a blah tube. Overall sound is slightly veiled. Bass is vague and unsatisfying. It also falls behind the other five tubes in this comparison in terms of detail and clarity. Definitely not recommended in the MG Head OTL.

#5 - JJ ECC83

This tube has fallen to the fifth spot. Although it sounds wonderfully liquid in the midrange, the highs are too soft. Bass could be a bit stronger. Ultimately, this tube gives up too much at the extremes. No longer recommended.

#4 - Ei Elite 12AX7E

Here's where things start to improve. The Ei delivers more bass than the JJ... enough to get your toes tapping. The overall sound is a bit too mellow, however. Too much detail is given up for warmth in the midrange and upper end. Result: A respectable if unexceptional tube.

#3 - JJ ECC803S

Gone are the mushy upper frequencies of the JJ ECC83! Now you can have your shimmering highs and lush midrange cake and eat it too. This is a natural-sounding tube that hits full stride in the midrange. It just sounds *alive*. However, bass is somewhat soft, which has the effect of flattening the dynamic range of high-impact music like electronica and rock. Use it with classical and vocal music, and you'll have a winning combination.

#2 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS

Get one for your collection! Sovtek's latest tube rocks! Bass is deep, clean, and never murky. Easily the best bass of the current production tubes in this roundup. High frequencies are crystal clear and sparkling with detail. Wow... what's not to like? The only real weakness of this tube is the characteristic "Sovtek sterility" in the midrange, which makes everything sound a bit colder than it should. Overall, this is a superbly balanced and exciting tube that flat-out rocks. Gives NOS a real run for the money.

#1 tube is still the Raytheon, because it delivers both a natural midrange and 90% of the dynamic range of the Sovtek.

My advice? Buy the Sovtek 12AX7LPS (a MUST for electronica fans) and the JJ ECC803S and swap 'em where appropriate. Or, find a Raytheon and be done with it.

Blasyrkh, based upon your preferences, I suggest you add one of the new JJ ECC803S tubes to your collection. It addresses the problems of the older ECC83 being too dark and "heavy" due to its rolled-off highs.

 

[Blasyrkh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous Second round impressions: Raytheon 5751 blackplate w/windmill getter JJ ECC803S Sovtek 12AX7LPS Ei Elite 12AX7E JJ ECC83 Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EH Let's start from the bottom up: #6 - Electro-Harmonix 12AX7EH I gotta agree with the guitar amp freaks on this one. It's a blah tube. Overall sound is slightly veiled. Bass is vague and unsatisfying. It also falls behind the other five tubes in this comparison in terms of detail and clarity. Definitely not recommended in the MG Head OTL. #5 - JJ ECC83 This tube has fallen to the fifth spot. Although it sounds wonderfully liquid in the midrange, the highs are too soft. Bass could be a bit stronger. Ultimately, this tube gives up too much at the extremes. No longer recommended. #4 - Ei Elite 12AX7E Here's where things start to improve. The Ei improves upon the JJ by delivering enough bass to get your toes tapping. Unfortunately, the rest of the frequency sounds a bit too mellow. It gives up detail for warmth, which prevents any one strength from standing out. Result: A respectable but mostly uninvolving tube. #3 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS Get one for your collection! Sovtek's latest tube rocks! Bass is deep and satisfying but never gets murky. The 12AX7LPS has the best bass of all current production tubes in this roundup. It doesn't get too "dark" either, because the high frequencies are crystal clear and sparkle with detail. The only real weakness of this tube is the characteristic "Sovtek sterility" in the midrange, but it isn't as pronounced as usual. Overall, this is a superbly balanced and exciting tube that excels with electronic music. #2 - JJ ECC803S JJ's latest creation is a hit! It replaces the mushy upper frequencies of the JJ ECC83 with shimmering highs. Now you can have your lush midrange cake and eat it too. This tube shines with classical and vocal music, or anything that emphasizes the midrange/upper frequencies. It doesn't totally spank the Sovtek because the bass is definitely weaker, but it works well enough. I love the midrange of the JJ family of tubes, so it's worth the tradeoff to me... I think. More testing is needed to be sure. I'm slotting it at the #2 spot for the moment. #1 tube is still the Raytheon, because it does everything best. However, at this rate, NOS may eventually be overtaken by current production tubes. Ah, we can only hope. My advice? Use the Sovtek 12AX7LPS for electronic and cerebral music, and the JJ ECC803S for everything else. Or, find a Raytheon and be done with it. Blasyrkh, based upon your preferences, I suggest you try one of the new JJ ECC803S tubes. It addresses the problems of the older ECC83 being too dark and "heavy" due to its rolled-off highs.

about the EH i'm really impressed, i don't find its bass vague and unsatisfying at all...maybe it's the most bassy tube of all (and it's not boomy)...it has very warm and pleasure midrange (and maybe it's why it lacks detail)...and slightly smooth rolled off highs.

your analysis is interesting because exept for the EH (and raytheon i never listened to) it's quite the same of the mine one. I think too the best for me is the ECC803s, in fact it is the one i use most...but still, for rock/heavy metal, i prefer the LPS

now i'm testing the EI 12AX7EG and EL84EG, Groove Tubes GT12AX7M and GTEL84S, and the Tung-sol 12AX7...i think i've found was i was looking for in the EL84EG and GT12AX7M, but i need some more tests

Nik, just a question, which output mode do you often use? and which kind of music do you listen to?

 

[Afrikane]

Thank you kindly for the new guide Nick. Based upon your original guide I sought out a Raytheon and I must say that I am finding it to be a huge improvement over the stock Electro Harmonix. I am thoroughly enjoying what is shaping up to be a pretty magical combo of K701/MG Head/Raytheon.