[obobskivich]

IMHO "no" would be my answer - you'd be better off going to the new headphones (e.g. HD 650) than another DAC. Source quality is also an important consideration - garbage in, garbage out, and good gear usually doesn't "improve" on that equation. That said, IME, differences between DACs tend to be fairly small (especially if you aren't obsesively comparing things in a non-ideal manner). I'd say go for the new headphones first - they'll have the biggest overall impact on SQ, they're the biggest item you can improve, and the most effective way to spend your coin. Quality material is also important, and then worry about a compatible amplifier, and then finally after all that's done, make sure your source device is functional and "good enough" and life goes on.

 

[JIMMY16]

Im thinking for someone with a probably non ideal source (roku4) and not being trained in critical listening your not wrong, on the other hand, i do strongly believe any dac upgrade above the fiio d3 will be a one time investment. I know upgraditis is an illness but at some point in my price range , a dac is a dac. At this point i would say, i would jump on a really good price, on a couple dacs i have my eye on but it is not a priorty and i will most likely be upgrading headphones first. Thanks so much for your time.

 

[obobskivich]

Im thinking for someone with a probably non ideal source (roku4) and not being trained in critical listening your not wrong, on the other hand, i do strongly believe any dac upgrade above the fiio d3 will be a one time investment. I know upgraditis is an illness but at some point in my price range , a dac is a dac. At this point i would say, i would jump on a really good price, on a couple dacs i have my eye on but it is not a priorty and i will most likely be upgrading headphones first. Thanks so much for your time.

I'll still disagree with the idea that "any upgrade "above" is going to be worth it" - how are you quantifying "worth it"? And even there, measured performance ceases to matter once you go beyond audible performance (and that isn't some mushy-wushy subjective bar either). And "trained in critical listening" doesn't mean "imbued with superhuman abilities" either. This isn't rocket surgery, neither is it shrouded behind the veil for the oracle to interpret.

Yes, quality does matter to a point, but that point is pretty easy to achieve these days. Much better to focus on headphones/speakers than digital sources imho/ime.

 

[alynx]

Will be getting the FX Audio Dac x6 for my brother soon. Let you know how it fares when I have it.

 

[JIMMY16]

Im new to the audiophile world and cant say i excell at science, so my opinions are based on the opinions of people who are smarter than me. My personal opinions about all dacs sounding basically the same go back and forth. One person says a dac is a dac the next says there is an obvious audible differance between the modi 2 uber and the modi multibit etc. For example. The multibit is out of my price range and $100 more than the modi 2 but an "obvious" increase in sound quality even to untrained ears, is nothing to scoff at. Adding to the confusion, are people being dishonest in order to sell you something. I am open to both schools of thought and will keep my ears open.

 

[james pal]

I am alos looking for best usb dac under 200 dollar. please suggest me some good dac

 

[fuzun]

Look xd-05 xduoo.

 

[obobskivich]

Im new to the audiophile world and cant say i excell at science, so my opinions are based on the opinions of people who are smarter than me. My personal opinions about all dacs sounding basically the same go back and forth. One person says a dac is a dac the next says there is an obvious audible differance between the modi 2 uber and the modi multibit etc. For example. The multibit is out of my price range and $100 more than the modi 2 but an "obvious" increase in sound quality even to untrained ears, is nothing to scoff at. Adding to the confusion, are people being dishonest in order to sell you something. I am open to both schools of thought and will keep my ears open.

It's a bit contentious, mostly because of the never-ending "subjective/objective debate" that is fueled by those folks trying to sell you things (remember: there's real agendas here), but this is a panel discussion on various "audio myths" that's stacked entirely with legitimate experts (as in, people who work in academia and at research labs, with legitimate credentials and publications to their name):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ

Beyond that, it doesn't require a degree in rocket surgery or a $500,000 credit limit to dissect this stuff - its well understood/accepted that after a given point of measurable/technical performance you've exceeded the limits of human audition (that is, sure a scope or a meter may tell you "its better" but our ears can't tell the difference), and modern DACs more or less all reach that benchmark in terms of frequency response, dynamic range, noise, etc. Of course you'll run into people making wild claims, and there's all sorts of issues not only with marketers cooking up "new problems that their great new product solves!" but also with "consumers shilling consumers" where folks go out and spend a lot of money, expect to hear some big, night and day difference, and then surprise surprise, DO hear some big night and day difference that 100% confirms their expectations, and who get quite defensive/cagey when questioned about it or asked to assess it critically.

Of course you can dismiss all of this and say "well that's just like, your opinion man" which has become, unfortunately, an all too-common tactic in the modern world as a means of shutting out competing viewpoints and remaining within our own isolated info-bubbles, and audiophile marketing is probably one of the earliest examples of this in practice.

 

[JIMMY16]

I actually came to a conclusion on this even before your link. It makes total sense that a dac may measure incredibly well but human ears and brains have limits on what they can hear or perceive (such as my poor 45 year old ears). Some people have claimed that the new 4k televisions show no increase in picture quality due to the limits of the eyes/brain. I have no idea, i have never seen a 4k television. All that being said, i do believe i will hear an obvious audible difference between the fiio d3 and the schiit modi uber do to posts ive read here on head fi and the general consensus in the anti boutique dac crowd that once you get the right dac in the $100 -$200 dac range, thats as good as it gets, given our human limitations. The fiio is a well made $30 dac but i dont think its quite endgame for me. Do you think there would be an audible difference between the fiio d3 and schiit modi uber? Its fine if you dont know but some people have claimed the modi is better. Who knows, this is my endgame setup for a dac i can invest more than $30, i guess the only question is would the move actually be detrimental. Thanks for listening i will go watch your link now.

 

[obobskivich]

I actually came to a conclusion on this even before your link. It makes total sense that a dac may measure incredibly well but human ears and brains have limits on what they can hear or perceive (such as my poor 45 year old ears). Some people have claimed that the new 4k televisions show no increase in picture quality due to the limits of the eyes/brain. I have no idea, i have never seen a 4k television. All that being said, i do believe i will hear an obvious audible difference between the fiio d3 and the schiit modi uber do to posts ive read here on head fi and the general consensus in the anti boutique dac crowd that once you get the right dac in the $100 -$200 dac range, thats as good as it gets, given our human limitations. The fiio is a well made $30 dac but i dont think its quite endgame for me. Do you think there would be an audible difference between the fiio d3 and schiit modi uber? Its fine if you dont know but some people have claimed the modi is better. Who knows, this is my endgame setup for a dac i can invest more than $30, i guess the only question is would the move actually be detrimental. Thanks for listening i will go watch your link now.

"Detrimental" probably not, but "will you hear a legitimate difference?" my guess is that if you're absolutely, unequivocally EXPECTING to do so (which you are, by your own admission), then yes it will be a big, night-and-day, earth-shattering, soul-changing experience (okay maybe that's a bit much, but you get my point?). In practice, IME, differences between DACs are *VERY* small, especially if you aren't doing a bad head-to-head comparison (as in, you aren't listening expecting/demanding to hear a difference with two pieces of gear side by side in a sighted environment). Even when you get into spending stupid amounts of cash. Overall, the headphones/speakers are where the bulk of the time, money, etc should be dropped, amplification is relevant until it isn't ("that's so vague" -> my point is that you need to ensure compatibility and that it has enough on reserve to provide headroom for your listening levels, and is low noise enough to be tolerable (some folks are more picky than others about audible noise floor), but once it checks those boxes, there's not very many places left to go with it), and the source basically needs to achieve transparency and once you're there, you're there. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that, but marketers will absolutely tell you another story (and you get to pay them for the privilege at that).

 

[JIMMY16]

I watched the full hour of the link you provided and it was very interesting even though %90 of it was way over my head. You are correct about my/human expectation bias. I am not actually expecting a night and day difference between the dacs but have an overwhelming need to spend more money for piece of mind ( lol). I will definately be upgrading headphones and yes almost certainly getting a odac (endgame). At least the designer of the odac had a philosophy about equipment along the lines of what we have been talking about, as opposed to boutique dac makers.. I am also starting to strongly believe boutique solid state amps are a waste of money too. Thanks for your time and knowledge.

 

[obobskivich]

I watched the full hour of the link you provided and it was very interesting even though %90 of it was way over my head. You are correct about my/human expectation bias. I am not actually expecting a night and day difference between the dacs but have an overwhelming need to spend more money for piece of mind ( lol). I will definately be upgrading headphones and yes almost certainly getting a odac (endgame). At least the designer of the odac had a philosophy about equipment along the lines of what we have been talking about, as opposed to boutique dac makers.. I am also starting to strongly believe boutique solid state amps are a waste of money too. Thanks for your time and knowledge.

I'd absolutely be "for" upgrading headphones/speakers for better fidelity. There's a lot of different design ideas out there, and a lot of companies doing interesting work, so its certainly something to pursue. As far as "high end solid state amps are a waste of money" (or anything in this genre being "a waste") I'd add: there's nothing wrong with buying something fancy specifically because its fancy and you like that. I'd also add that a lot of contemporary "mass market" stuff has become really low quality in terms of build/reliability (and in some cases in terms of performance too) - a good example are modern receivers and AVRs, which tend to be very cheaply made in flimsy cases and with wimpy amplifiers, whereas more "boutique" brands will be more robust in terms of assembly and performance. So boutique doesn't always have to be a four-letter word, just be cognizant that the point of diminishing returns is relatively low in terms of "performance" and that in some cases you're just paying brand tax, buying something fancy for the sake of it being fancy, or paying extra just for reliability/better support/etc.

 

[JIMMY16]

I agree, there is no problem paying for reliability, design, good components but for me theres a limit. I may although, invest in a well built tube amp. Thanks for your thoughts

 

[obobskivich]

I agree, there is no problem paying for reliability, design, good components but for me theres a limit. I may although, invest in a well built tube amp. Thanks for your thoughts

OFC there should be limits on everything - to use the dreaded car analogy, I'm basically saying "there's no shame in buying a Volvo or BMW" not "go out and buy a Bentley or Aston Martin." (no offense to Bentley and Aston Martin drivers, but I think you get the idea, and if not - I did say "dreaded car analogy").