[pianomaster]

Total newb here, and i can almost guarantee this is in the wrong forum, but from what i've read in other threads, you guys (and gals) seem to be a totally knowledgeable community, so hopefully i can get pointed in the right direction...i'm 19, i play the piano and am going to try and be a piano major come september...i love electronics though and have been workin hard on getting that "audiophile" ear that lets so many of you hear those nuances that make or break listening...how did you guys(and gals) get that ear? does it come with experience? or was there one recording that just did it for you and from then on everything was crystal clear?...as far as any equipment goes(keep in mind i'm a struggling musician here), i've got a 3G ipod, a nondescript sony discman, a pair of SR-60s, PX-100s, a well-worn set of ER-4S's from Santa, and a first-gen. Airhead amp...i've been experimenting with various setups (amp vs. no amp, compressed AACs vs. cd, different phones against each other) to listen for various differences...i'm coming along nicely i hope, but i just wanted to see what anybody here could contribute...thanks in advance guys (and gals)...look forward to learnin from everybody!
brad

 

[Jasper994]

Looks like you're headed in the right direction. I'd say most of use devolop as we a/b more equipment since this requires trying to hear and listen to every little nuance in what we're hearing. As you go up the scale with your associated equipment they will have more ability to resolve and separate out the different sounds in what you're listening to. Good luck and welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your wallet.

 

[md01]

experience and a pair of golden ears

 

[raaj]

All I can say is 'Audiophilia is an acquired taste..'.

You either put your foot down and say 'enough is enough !! I want to hear more detail.. more life-like sound in my music and equipment, and I am not going to spare any effort till I achieve audio nirvana..

'

or

You go and snuggle up to those crappy $10 Coby or GPX CD players with their crappy headphones, say peace and cherish the savings !!

The fact that you are researching this forum shows that you are headed down the right path.. So, stop putting up with crap, stop compromising. When you know there is better sound out there, and if you can afford it, there is no reason to compromise on the sound.. And that is the mindset that a true audiophile needs.. Everything else will follow.

'Welcome to Head-fi.. Sorry about your wallet

'

 

[Steve999]

Most of the audiophile ear stuff is nonsense, and a great deal of it is absolutely and demonstrably false. So now you are on notice, whether you choose to believe me or not. You can save yourself from a lifetime of nonsense.

Musical talent is the real deal. There's no faking it. You are the lucky one.

The airhead amps have some audible shortcomings. In most cases you're better off with no amp than an airhead amp, IMHO.

With a little luck, this misinformed group of audio miscreants can point you to some good-sounding headphones. That's what this place is best at. But you've already got SR60s and ETY 4S's, those are awesome headphones, I'm not sure there'd be much value to expanding on what you have.

A Sony D-NE300 PDCP ($60) might or might not give you audible benefits over your current Sony PDCP. Sony made their portables better this year. Plus it has flexible digital EQ, which can really help you suit the sound to your tastes.

Good luck!

Quote:

Originally Posted by pianomaster i'm 19, i play the piano and am going to try and be a piano major come september...i love electronics though and have been workin hard on getting that "audiophile" ear that lets so many of you hear those nuances that make or break listening... how did you guys(and gals) get that ear? does it come with experience? or was there one recording that just did it for you and from then on everything was crystal clear?...as far as any equipment goes(keep in mind i'm a struggling musician here), i've got a 3G ipod, a nondescript sony discman, a pair of SR-60s, PX-100s, a well-worn set of ER-4S's from Santa, and a first-gen.

 

[Pov]

Just relax and enjoy the music. That's what it's all about anyway. The discriminating ear will develop on its own.

Personally, I question the whole "audiophile" paradigm when you're talking about headphones anyway. Yes, there are some very good headphones out there, and vast differences in quality. But to me the ultimate goal of being an audiophile is more than just getting good sound. The ulitmate goal is to recreate as closely as possible the experience of hearing the music live and in person. The ultimate audio system would be one where you couldn't tell the difference between a live performance and the recording of that performance - i.e. if you closed your eyes you would think the musicians are performing live you with in the front row center seat. No set of headphones is going to give you that experience. You need speakers. Headphones cannot properly convey three dimensional soundstaging, and they can't reproduce the feel of the bass hitting your body.

 

[Taurui]

Audiophility is overrated. Groove is more important

People who talk about fine nuances have earned it through a lot of experience with good equipment, just like it's the case with wine, food and so on.
Don't stress yourself, there's no way to "Burn in" your ears faster

Try to listen to as much equipment as you can, by the way, so you can appreciate your equipment better and know what it does well and what it does not so well.
"Groove" is more important for playing an instrument, though

-Taurui

Oh, yeah, and it might help if you get an amp and a real source

 

[Canman]

Brad, the audiophile ear comes mostly from experience of trying out different gear. Steve999 makes a great point in that it is the music that is most important, don't get too hung up on the gear or else we miss the point of this hobby-which for me is to bring me closer to the music. What Steve and I agree with is music can be enjoyed on any system. So rule number one is to have fun. If you can, make it to Head-Fi meetings and test out gear for yourself. Only you know what sounds better to you and what gear may make your listening experience more enjoyable. I can't say it enough: Enjoy the music, and trust your own ears.

 

[pianomaster]

wow that didn't take long...thanks people....i guess i always thought of audio equipment as Pov mentioned, i.e. close your eyes and it sounds like you're there (btw, is that what people mean by saying anything sounds "transparent"?...some of these terms seem way too subjective to me, but that one is reasonable)....there's an older model Home amp on ebay right now for $89 i'm hoping to snag by the end of the evening (i called dibs!) which hopefully will highlight the shortcomings of either my gear or my recordings...i'm actually hoping that what i discover disappoints me, so i can cheer my new discerning ear...one more question: in general, which has more effect on how a piece of music sounds, the quality of the recording or everything used to reproduce it? thanks again everbody!!
brad
"People were uglier then, but they made better music." - Kid Rock on the '70s

 

[raaj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pianomaster in general, which has more effect on how a piece of music sounds, the quality of the recording or everything used to reproduce it? thanks again everbody!! brad "People were uglier then, but they made better music." - Kid Rock on the '70s

I am not sure if Kid Rock's statement is completely true... You have your share of bad music in any generation..

Anyway, regarding your question.. I think the quality of the recording AND the quality of the gear used to reproduce it have a mutually complimentary role in how much you enjoy the music.. A really great recording might sound better than a mediocre recording on mediocre equipment.. and a mediocre recording will sound better on good equipment than on a mediocre equipment..
I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

One thing is obviously sure.. a great recording on great equipment will sound super.. than a mediocre recording on mediocre equipment..

 

[Pov]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pianomaster wow that didn't take long...thanks people....i guess i always thought of audio equipment as Pov mentioned, i.e. close your eyes and it sounds like you're there (btw, is that what people mean by saying anything sounds "transparent"?...some of these terms seem way too subjective to me, but that one is reasonable).......one more question: in general, which has more effect on how a piece of music sounds, the quality of the recording or everything used to reproduce it? thanks again everbody!!

Good question. Part of the problem with audiophilia is that the same terms mean different things to different people. I've read a lot of high-end "audiophile" magazines in my time (mostly Stereophile and The Absolute Sound) and when they use the word "transparent" I think they are mostly referring to the equipment - i.e. you hear the music and not distortions or other stuff introduced by the equipment. So that is definitely part of the equation.

With respect to your second question, I think the quality of the recording is the most important factor, with the speakers being a close second. Most recordings, particularly of rock music, are crap. The best source/speakers/pre-amp/amp in the world can't fix problems inherent in the original recording. In fact they will show how bad the recording really is. As an aside, there used to be a British company called Linn Audio (I don't know if they are still around) that claimed - and convinced many people - that the most important piece of equipment was the turntable (this was back in the days before CDs). Thus, with a limited budget you should spend most of your money on the turntable/toenarm/cartridge combination because if you don't start with the best possibe source equipment you are wasting your money on everything else. While there is some validity the concept that you won't get good sound unless you start with a good source, keep in mind that at the time Linn was primarily a turntable manufacturer.

 

[john_jcb]

I would imagine you already are well on your way to developing a very good ear. I am sure you have played on a variety of pianos. Don't they sound different to you even though you are playing the same notes? It is the same with audio gear. The music sounds different through different equipment. When I am trying to review or audition a new piece of gear my listening is all together different than when I am listening for enjoyment.

When I want to judge a piece of gear I select a variety of music. Male & Female vocals and various instruments. It helps early on to use recordings that you know are well done; later you will be the one judging the recording quality. I also select music that I know very well that I have heard over and over again on my reference system. I then listen to short passages on the equipment I am reviewing. Listening to an entire track is too confusing to me. For instance I will listen to the first 20-30 seconds of track 6 on Holly Cole's CD Temptation. It has a powerful bass line that will challenge your set up. I then move on to tracks that showcase the midrange or the highs then complex passages that test am amps ability to keep up.

When you narrow down what you are listening to it is far easier to pick out differences. I have listened to amps that made me feel as though I had a sheet over my head the sound was so muffled and others that were open like listening to an outdoor concert.

The pitfall of critical listening is that you sometimes find yourself critiquing the gear instead of enjoying the music. I really had this problem when I first got my HD-600 headphones. I found myself listening more for the details than enjoying the music.

 

[plainsong]

The idea of golden ears is a bit nonsense IMO. In college you'll get to improve the ear you already have with theory and ear training courses. Concentrate on trying to hear mode changes and intervals between notes and stuff like that and you'll be fine.

But there's no point trying to get headphones to match live performance. There are different degrees of better and different degrees of different, and it's up to you to decide what flavor you like in headphone listening. But no electronic listening equipment will be a substitute for live. There's no getting around that the equipment is a filter, so just decide what flavor you like, sit back, and enjoy.

You'll be hearing enough live music in your life to not sweat it. And as a performer you know even that perfect live performance is rather elusive anyway, so just sit back and laugh at the audiophiles who try to chase perfection when you know yourself the acoustics at a live performance are hardly ever perfect.

 

[DrewWinters]

I found this link here on Head-Fi.... but I don't really remember whose it is (it's a member's website I believe). Anyway, this is a helpful list of "Audiophile Terms" and their common usage. One caveat: some people may have a different definition of some of these terms, since they are hardly carved in stone (besides, anything auditory is subjective); but it should come in handy anyway.

Audiophile Terms

 

[pianomaster]

man this place is a gold mine! thanks again to everybody (thx for the interesting link Drew). I guess i'll keep talkin and askin as long as you guys keep answering!
My ears must be a little weird; playing the piano has definitely tuned my ear quite a bit, but in a very limited sense. I've got perfect pitch, i can name intervals and i can pretty much tell if somebody playing in the same room as me is any good or not, so i guess my ears are used to how a piano sounds. I've got loads more trouble being so discerning listening to other instruments, however, live or on a disc.
Am I right in assuming that the "simplest" songs are some of the best ones for honing those ears (i.e. the ones that lay everything down bare with only a few instruments and lots of dynamic shifts)? This is where i'm hoping all my classical cds will come in handy, what do you good folks think?
brad
Music: the greatest good that mortals know, and all of Heaven we have below. <--is this better than the Kid Rock sig, raaj?