Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)

[evillamer]

Question is Yggdrasil truely 20bit or near(pseudo) 20bit? Given the context of the Analog Device's internal 14bit R2R + 63 segments diagram.

 

[Sapientiam]

Given that the DAC chip itself is only truly 20bit at fairly low frequencies, the answer to your question (which would reasonably apply over the audio band) depends on the dynamic performance of their deglitching circuit in the main. The datasheet doesn't give enough detail about the settling dynamics of the DAC which would need to settle to 1ppm within 2.8uS (no mean feat) and the deglitcher has to do considerably better than that for the performance to be dominated by the DAC chip's 20bits.

 

[purrin]

   
Nothing wrong with it being a Resistor String DAC chip instead of an R2R type, both are multibit dac chips just of differing architectures.
 
I think the main problem here is that on the forum R2R has become synonymous with multibit, which isn't the case, there are several types of multibit DAC architectures around, R2R just being one of them.

 
I've loosely used R2R / ladder to refer to anything not delta-sigma, PWM, etc.
 
R2R architecture (literally looks like a ladder with two resistor values, R and 2R) , a string of resistors, a capacitor array, array of current sources, and all sorts of fancy stuff the mind can imagine for multi-bit.
 

  Question is Yggdrasil truely 20bit or near(pseudo) 20bit? Given the context of the Analog Device's internal 14bit R2R + 63 segments diagram.

 
It's 20 bits with 1LSB error = 19 bits. Two per channel for true 20 bits.
 
AD5791 appears to be R2R for the 14 LSBs and string architecture for the 6 MSBs. The "Six MSBs decoded into the 63 equal segments" is a big hint as well the the simplified schematic. A 20 bit string DAC would require over a million resistors / segments.
 
The UltraAnalog modules of yester-year glued two high accuracy R2R chips for LSB and a bunch of resistors for the 4 MSBs.
 
Oh Noes! What are we doing to do?

 

[evillamer]

It's already March. Where's the yddrasil?

 

[estreeter]

It's already March. Where's the yddrasil?

 
You're either not very good at counting or trying to be witty - 'end Q1 2015' is March 31 : by my calendar, still 15 days away. Mike gave an update about 5 days ago in the main thread - promising without unduly raising expectations. I could show you YT vids of Fedex and DHL couriers throwing packages around, but perhaps we should just hope for the best with a 35lb DAC containing seven PCBs and the kind of complexity that will leave most of the DiYers shaking their heads. 

 

[mauriceg]

Hopefully this isn't too off topic in this thread, if it is please just ignore.
I am looking for a good dac around 700€(850$) used, somost products around 1200-1300€ new would qualify.
Can anyone give me some recommendations? For now I will be listening with headphones through a Lehmann Black cube linear. My headphones are sennheiser HD650's.

 

[conquerator2]

What kind of sound are you after?

 

[mauriceg]

What kind of sound are you after?

That is a good question, honestly I am more the kind of person that can't really describe the sound I am looking for, but when I hear it, I know that is what I want.

 

[Sorrodje]

@mauriceg : If I were You i would grab a Brand new Meier DACCORD.  great sound, great features, great seller, 14 days return policy.  IMO a HD650 does not need more investment in the DAC. it's wonderful headphone and need great amps to shine but IMO a great , precise well built , resolving and transparent DAC will do the job. The Meier DACCORD  is one of those DAC.

 

[mauriceg]

@mauriceg
: If I were You i would grab a Brand new Meier DACCORD.  great sound, great features, great seller, 14 days return policy.  IMO a HD650 does not need more investment in the DAC. it's wonderful headphone and need great amps to shine but IMO a great , precise well built , resolving and transparent DAC will do the job. The Meier DACCORD  is one of those DAC.

Thank you! The meier seems like a nice dac!
In case I will upgrade my headphones some time it might be smart to already have a DAC that suits the headphones I was thinking though.
I was already considering upgrading to sennheiser HD700's a while ago, I might do that some time in the not too distant future.

 

[Sorrodje]

The HD700 is not so much an upgrade from the HD650 IMO . But we're off topic there.
 
The DACCORD is really versatile and transparent. you can keep it and build the Headphone + amp combo of your choice . Jan Meier is really a kind guy to deal with.  IMO Meier Audio is the European counterpart of Schitt audio.  no BS, affordable prices , direct sales , no snake oil , great piece of gear. Meier's business is smaller than Schiit though.

 

[mauriceg]

  The HD700 is not so much an upgrade from the HD650 IMO . But we're off topic there.
 
The DACCORD is really versatile and transparent. you can keep it and build the Headphone + amp combo of your choice . Jan Meier is really a kind guy to deal with.  IMO Meier Audio is the European counterpart of Schitt audio.  no BS, affordable prices , direct sales , no snake oil , great piece of gear. Meier's business is smaller than Schiit though.

Sounds Great!
I am definitely interested and will look into meier some more! Talking about Schiit, I was also considering their Gungnir, seems like a lot of bang for the buck.
Also audiolab's M-DAC and PS audio's Nuwave look very interesting to me. And so does the Metrum octave dac

 

[Sorrodje]

The Metrum Octave is a good choice when you're after smoothness, mids fullness and somewhat laid back sound. I wouldn't go that route for a HD650. Even if My HD800 I found sparkle and bite was lacking. Metrum octave mids are wonderful though.  This Octave is a polar opposite of analytical DAC but still enjoyable and not sirupy.
 
Didnt hear Gungnir , Nuwave and MDAC. So I can't help more.

 

[TokenGesture]

I didn't get on with the MDAC - too bright for me. Went to the Octave and haven't looked back!

 

[mauriceg]

  The Metrum Octave is a good choice when you're after smoothness, mids fullness and somewhat laid back sound. I wouldn't go that route for a HD650. Even if My HD800 I found sparkle and bite was lacking. Metrum octave mids are wonderful though.  This Octave is a polar opposite of analytical DAC but still enjoyable and not sirupy.
 
Didnt hear Gungnir , Nuwave and MDAC. So I can't help more.

I should indeed probably stay away from the metrum then. Sound slike a great DAc but probably not a great match with the HD650's.
Thanks so much for your help!
The Gungnir, Nuwave and MDAC are just a few options that I had on my mind, I have no serious considerations to buy any of those yet.