[walfredo]

Any news, folks???

 

[KewlMunky]

Haven't seen another update yet, which is a little odd. Hopefully it just means they've been so busy getting it ready and not that they've run into an issue again.

 

[jameswalker]

It is indeed odd, as they said we can expect multiple updates in Feb. Then again they said that about Jan too...

 

[walfredo]

@FightinJim please give your current realistic estimate and keep us up-to-date. 

 

[STROKEMYCANS]

 

Friends of Taction:
The good news is that we are making steady progress, We think the changes we are making will solve the sourcing issue we mentioned in our last update, and that the product will be better for the tough work we are doing now -- more accurate, more durable, and more polished. 
The bad news is that rubbing off the sharp edges takes time.
We've posted a video to share a bit more detail.
https://youtu.be/NaSnLqCKe9E
The bottom line is that we are committed to getting you quality Kannons just as soon as we can. We appreciate your patience, and are confident that it will be amply rewarded by the final product.

another update today. More delays :\
This thing sounds like total vaporware now, I want my $350 back Kickstarter 

 

[FightinJim]

Hi there,
 
I get it, and I'm sorry for the delay. I know people are concerned -- I would be, too if I were in your shoes.  
 
That said, the reason it's taking so long is because the new tech going into the Kannons is exactly the OPPOSITE of vaporware.  It's real hardware, and it's new.
 
If we were just throwing a plastic skin over off-the-shelf drivers, we would have shipped by now.
 
But hardware is, well, hard. The Kannons actually have entirely new technology in them.   Our tactile drivers require their own signal processing and amplifiers. They handle a lot of power, so the electronics are non-trivial.  On the mechanical side, every component in the tactile driver (and they are more complex than an acoustic driver) we've had to design, source, and qualify. We're also putting much more energy into the mechanical system than other cans do, and that creates additional challenges we have had to work through.
 
In this update John and I did not go into detail about the hitches we hit, or how we've adapted the design to solve them.  We know some of you would love to know more about them, but there's some valuable IP in how we are solving those engineering difficulties, so we need to keep some of that to ourselves.
 
Again, I understand (and share) your frustration. I'm sorry if the update took the wrong tone. I'm no PR genius. I'm an engineer. I can only ask that you keep the faith a little longer. 
 
But you can be very sure of these points - the hardware is real; it will make everything that's come before it seem like a toy; and we are building and debugging it as quickly as possible so that we can ship it to your door.
 
- Fightin Jim

 

[STROKEMYCANS]

  Hi there,
 
I get it, and I'm sorry for the delay. I know people are concerned -- I would be, too if I were in your shoes.  
 
That said, the reason it's taking so long is because the new tech going into the Kannons is exactly the OPPOSITE of vaporware.  It's real hardware, and it's new.
 
If we were just throwing a plastic skin over off-the-shelf drivers, we would have shipped by now.
 
But hardware is, well, hard. The Kannons actually have entirely new technology in them.   Our tactile drivers require their own signal processing and amplifiers. They handle a lot of power, so the electronics are non-trivial.  On the mechanical side, every component in the tactile driver (and they are more complex than an acoustic driver) we've had to design, source, and qualify. We're also putting much more energy into the mechanical system than other cans do, and that creates additional challenges we have had to work through.
 
In this update John and I did not go into detail about the hitches we hit, or how we've adapted the design to solve them.  We know some of you would love to know more about them, but there's some valuable IP in how we are solving those engineering difficulties, so we need to keep some of that to ourselves.
 
Again, I understand (and share) your frustration. I'm sorry if the update took the wrong tone. I'm no PR genius. I'm an engineer. I can only ask that you keep the faith a little longer. 
 
But you can be very sure of these points - the hardware is real; it will make everything that's come before it seem like a toy; and we are building and debugging it as quickly as possible so that we can ship it to your door.
 
- Fightin Jim

Thanks for the update ! Good to know this project is still real  
 
Do you have any ETA on when this will be finished ? Summer/Fall?

 

[jameswalker]

Thanks for the presence on the forum, a more positive connection than youtube updates!
 
So, the latest estimate is May as per the youtube update. That is 9-12 weeks from now. I guess that sounds realistic, given that no further difficulties in purchasing components in bulk, has been mentioned.
 
At least in this update, we have seen the production line. It looks realistic and complete.
 
Out of interest, how much time does it take to manufacture and test just 1 kannon, with the current setup? Let's say 2 hours. And you have say 200 units to build. (Figures best estimate only). 400 man hours. Assuming James, John and the student are building, thats 3 weeks at 43 hours per week.
 
Will you be manufacturing the whole batch before sending out, or sending out as you go?
 
Thanks,

 

[FightinJim]

Once we begin the build, we will send as we go, and your three-week estimate of Kickstarter build duration is in line with our own.  That said, we are a new company building a new product with new technology.  So again, these are estimates. 
 
We won't know if we CAN build until we've completed fatigue-testing a design change to the tactile drivers. Right now, we're putting hundreds of millions of cycles on a test batch. They are built in a way that should solve a problem we figured out last month. Our preliminary tests make us think we have the solution nailed, but ultimately it's up to the drivers to tell us. So far the results are encouraging. But, the results are only preliminary because only part of the new solution is under test, and the sample size is small. 
 
What will give us confidence that our changes have fixed the problem is testing a new batch of parts that are scheduled to arrive at our shop March 10.  Tools to make those parts were being cut last week and are still being cut this week. Assuming the new tooling is good, the new parts will be injection-molded early next week, and shipped overnight.  Once they arrive, we'll carefully assemble a batch of those parts and put the new tactile drivers into fatigue testing.  The fatigue testing is the slow part.  Even with accelerated conditions (over-driving them 24/7) all of those hundreds of millions of cycles take about three weeks to accumulate.  
 
If the drivers go the distance, we're good, and we can go forward with that design, and we'll use the parts to build the Kickstarter Kannons.  That's the happy path, and it means shipping the Kickstarter in May (assuming that a few other critical steps also go smoothly).
 
The hard path could also happen, because hardware is hard.  If the fatigue tests reveal any new problems, we will have to design a fix, get revised parts made, and test the revision.  
 
This revise-test cycle is standard for any new hardware, whether it's a jet engine, toaster, or a new kind of tactile driver.  There are no short cuts.   If it helps, I have over fifteen years of experience with this sort of thing, and John has been through difficult hardware development challenges, too.  We've both seen many pitfalls and solutions in our careers, and this experience probably helps us converge on reliable solutions more quickly than the average Kickstarter team.  And we're getting parts from experienced, competent manufacturers, and they are also contributing their expertise.        
 
But ultimately, the answer about whether we CAN start the build lies inside those samples arriving next week. We will know whether we're on the happy path or the hard path once those samples are through fatigue-testing (~first week of April).  
 
So, there is the latest on our schedule and progress.
 
Launching a new product in the form of a technology startup is the hardest thing I've ever done. But I can honestly say that it's an honor developing and building headphones for this community, and we are grateful for everyone's support and patience bringing this new technology to the world.
 
Best,
Fightin' Jim

 

[walfredo]

  Once we begin the build, we will send as we go, and your three-week estimate of Kickstarter build duration is in line with our own.  That said, we are a new company building a new product with new technology.  So again, these are estimates. 
 
We won't know if we CAN build until we've completed fatigue-testing a design change to the tactile drivers. Right now, we're putting hundreds of millions of cycles on a test batch. They are built in a way that should solve a problem we figured out last month. Our preliminary tests make us think we have the solution nailed, but ultimately it's up to the drivers to tell us. So far the results are encouraging. But, the results are only preliminary because only part of the new solution is under test, and the sample size is small. 
 
What will give us confidence that our changes have fixed the problem is testing a new batch of parts that are scheduled to arrive at our shop March 10.  Tools to make those parts were being cut last week and are still being cut this week. Assuming the new tooling is good, the new parts will be injection-molded early next week, and shipped overnight.  Once they arrive, we'll carefully assemble a batch of those parts and put the new tactile drivers into fatigue testing.  The fatigue testing is the slow part.  Even with accelerated conditions (over-driving them 24/7) all of those hundreds of millions of cycles take about three weeks to accumulate.  
 
If the drivers go the distance, we're good, and we can go forward with that design, and we'll use the parts to build the Kickstarter Kannons.  That's the happy path, and it means shipping the Kickstarter in May (assuming that a few other critical steps also go smoothly).
 
The hard path could also happen, because hardware is hard.  If the fatigue tests reveal any new problems, we will have to design a fix, get revised parts made, and test the revision.  
 
This revise-test cycle is standard for any new hardware, whether it's a jet engine, toaster, or a new kind of tactile driver.  There are no short cuts.   If it helps, I have over fifteen years of experience with this sort of thing, and John has been through difficult hardware development challenges, too.  We've both seen many pitfalls and solutions in our careers, and this experience probably helps us converge on reliable solutions more quickly than the average Kickstarter team.  And we're getting parts from experienced, competent manufacturers, and they are also contributing their expertise.        
 
But ultimately, the answer about whether we CAN start the build lies inside those samples arriving next week. We will know whether we're on the happy path or the hard path once those samples are through fatigue-testing (~first week of April).  
 
So, there is the latest on our schedule and progress.
 
Launching a new product in the form of a technology startup is the hardest thing I've ever done. But I can honestly say that it's an honor developing and building headphones for this community, and we are grateful for everyone's support and patience bringing this new technology to the world.
 
Best,
Fightin' Jim

 
Thanks so much for the accurate account, Jim.

 

[jameswalker]

Perfect kind of update! Just enough info to keep me happy, without revealing your IP. Also, a very clear assessment of the possible schedule paths. 
 
At least we all now know exactly what we can expect and the reasons behind it. 
 
Thanks James! (keep up the hard work!)

 

[Luckbad]

I'm happy they're building them right rather than delivering just to deliver.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

I'm happy they're building them right rather than delivering just to deliver.

 
Yea, they seem to know what they are doing and have the experience required to kick this off, unfortunately DigiZoid for example were failing due this reason which also brought up an unique new product, not enough testing and they didn't have the management experience, was too busy getting products out but in turn, it got them screwed over due the overhelming issues that piled up afterwards.
 
When you are starting out a new company with a new unseen product, you just have to make sure everything is working as intended as you cannot afford to fail and it's almost garantueed that things won't go according to the best case scenario when everything would go as originally planned without delays. I think kickstarter campaigns shouldn't be so optimistic when it comes to promissing some launch date, I think the median delay for kickstarter was maybe around 7~8 months, and some projects can have like up to around 2 years of delay from the original advertised date so this campaign isn't really so much different or any exception, it's the norm. In fact over 90% of the campaigns gets the shipment done later than originally stated. I think it's good to have this in mind when signing up to a kickstarter campaign as otherwise you will always get dissappointed.

 

[flashmp3]

   
Yea, they seem to know what they are doing and have the experience required to kick this off, unfortunately DigiZoid for example were failing due this reason which also brought up an unique new product, not enough testing and they didn't have the management experience, was too busy getting products out but in turn, it got them screwed over due the overhelming issues that piled up afterwards.
 
When you are starting out a new company with a new unseen product, you just have to make sure everything is working as intended as you cannot afford to fail and it's almost garantueed that things won't go according to the best case scenario when everything would go as originally planned without delays. I think kickstarter campaigns shouldn't be so optimistic when it comes to promissing some launch date, I think the median delay for kickstarter was maybe around 7~8 months, and some projects can have like up to around 2 years of delay from the original advertised date so this campaign isn't really so much different or any exception, it's the norm. In fact over 90% of the campaigns gets the shipment done later than originally stated. I think it's good to have this in mind when signing up to a kickstarter campaign as otherwise you will always get dissappointed.

I think they the kickstarter should force the companies to systematically increase their estimated delivery date 

 

[jameswalker]

The 3 week endurance testing should be finishing tomorrow, so we can likely expect an update soon! 
 
I am even more eager now... I have just fit butt kickers to my home "cinema" and I am addicted to it now. I need it in portable format