[Jimster480]

Is this the version that you downloaded?

[COLOR=0595C6]USB Audio Class 2.0 Evaluation Driver for Windows[/COLOR][COLOR=464749] [/COLOR]

It said something about beep tones every 5 minutes and that didn't sound like something that I wanted to hear

No i downloaded the Xmos driver normal package.

 

[carlmart]

 
Even if I know this forum doesn't seem to be too much into modifying stuff, the M8 seems to be interesting into trying some upgrades.
 
It's not too much I'd do, but replacing the internal DC-DC supply with external linear types or mu-metal shielding it are the options that come to my mind.
 
SMSL did a good thing in the general design, but I believe linear supplies are less noisy, particularly in RF. Just take a look at the noise figures on some AD or LT regulators, and you would have another reason for switching to linear supplies.
 
Adding some shielding over the DC-DC supply area, where the chokes are, using mu-shield foil might be a simpler mod to try, hot-gluing the "cages" to the board on the red-marked areas.
 
Personally I would go for bypassing the DC-DC supply, but that does demand some DIY experience.

 

[Katji]

Have you read the posts about power supply? Experiments /tests with battery and with an external PSU, and with the SMSL P1 Linear PS.

 

[carlmart]

Have you read the posts about power supply? Experiments /tests with battery and with an external PSU, and with the SMSL P1 Linear PS.

Yes, I have read some.
 
Not yet those specific to the SMSL P1 supply, but I did take a look.
 
From what I could learn below, the interface would be just regulated 9v, not replace the switching regulators inside.
 
https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/smsl-p1-linear-power-supply-for-m8-v2-va2-sanskrit-sd-793ii-sd-192.html
 
The P1 doesn't attend the RFI issues I raised, as the DAC keeps its internal DC-DC supply.
 
In any case, my question was to see if anyone did or was thinking of applying any PS upgrades or changes in their M8.

 

[jkorten]

The standard SMSL linear power supply is regulated by LM317 voltage regulators. Puts out two voltages - one for the headphone amp and one for the DAC. (9 and 12VDC).

 

[carlmart]

  The standard SMSL linear power supply is regulated by LM317 voltage regulators. Puts out two voltages - one for the headphone amp and one for the DAC. (9 and 12VDC).

It doesn't matter how much regulation or what chip you use there.
 
The power supply inside the DAC will be the one in command and the one that should be improved.

 

[jkorten]

Hmmm - I tried replying but don't see it, so I'll try again.
 
If you're talking about the DC-DC switcher that generates +/- 12V internally then yes to an extent. The output impedance of the external power supply will affect the DC-DC switcher. But if you want to modify this, then you'll need to change the connector to handle three voltages. Switching power supplies per-se are not inherently bad. DACs like the Mytek use them.
 
You're probably better off working the same hours for $ and purchasing an MHDT Pagoda, or work longer for a Mytek Brooklyn (if DSD is your thing). 
 
J

 

[Jimster480]

I think that overall it won't make a difference.
Modern semiconductors are tolerant to these changes and thats what you are paying for in the DAC chip itself.
 
Just as the P1 made basically 0 difference for the normal M8 I highly doubt that changing the PSU will do anything in this case even if you change the internal one.

 

[jkorten]

  I think that overall it won't make a difference.
Modern semiconductors are tolerant to these changes and thats what you are paying for in the DAC chip itself.
 
Just as the P1 made basically 0 difference for the normal M8 I highly doubt that changing the PSU will do anything in this case even if you change the internal one.

Does this mean you've not actually heard the difference?

 

[Gonzbull]

There are lots of discussions on Linear Power Supplies on ComputerAudiophile. All seem to be positive reviews. I run my M8 with an LPS.
Problem is I never used the original switching power supply it came with and I also use a Regen. I never bothered to do an A/B comparison.
I have a Dangerous Music Source that I chucked an LPS on and there was a discernible difference for the better. I guess some devices would benefit and others won't form a LPS.

 

[Jimster480]

  Does this mean you've not actually heard the difference?

The only time I have experienced differences with audio products with power supplies in the past is when the power isn't clean from the original power supply (even if that supply is USB).
 
If you read reviews on the M8 many people did them and also bought linear power supplies or built them and experienced 0 difference. Even major audio publications tried it out and didn't experience a difference.
Power supply quality today is inherently good even at a very rock bottom price.
 
Once again this is due to the extremely good IC's of today. Even our "crappy" processes are worlds ahead of what they were 10+ years ago.
 
When you check into the parts used even in most of these large "name brand" audio devices, they are often no different then what is used in cheaper offerings (like ths SMSL and Topping products).
Also the price of these parts are insanely cheap, most DAC's are under $20 for the actual chips. TI has a number of them under $10 (as do most DAC companies) and they are sonically better than what was available 10+ years ago (unless you were in the bleeding edge).
Most of the "highest regarded" OPAmp's come from TI and cost between $0.75 and $10 so when you look at products in the thousands and they are using $50 worth of parts there is no magic there....

I actually find it funny to see people swearing by these overpriced niche products that are literally made of the same components as some of the cheap even sometimes portable offerings.
Also every DAC company these days has a competing "flagship" DAC and most companies selling stand-alone DAC's are advertising their ability to have 384 or even 786hz audio decoding or DSD512 playback. When in reality 90%+ of music is 16/44.1 or 24/96 or 24/48.
I'm not saying that 24/192 cannot sound better, but you won't find things recorded like this and if you are a person like me or my wife who actually listen to music for hours on end on a regular basis you can bet that most likely you will be listening to a streaming service that won't go above the aforementioned qualities.

 

[carlmart]

As usual when we get into these discussions, where we deal with subjective responses, things get very complicated.
 
To start with, even if you listen to a single speaker that can handle all frequencies well, particularly the mid ones, you get used to it and get to like it.
 
About the people that used the M8 with other supplies, and got zero difference, that's only useful if they did bypass the internal supplies. 
 
DIYinhk sells XMOS DAC boards that has inputs for external linear supplies, so in spite of modern chips being better, I guess is because DC-DC designs would have to be a LOT better (and expen$ive) to improve on a good linear supply.
 
My question is supposed to be answered by people that actually did bypass the internal supplies, and what were their findings.

 

[Jimster480]

As usual when we get into these discussions, where we deal with subjective responses, things get very complicated.

To start with, even if you listen to a single speaker that can handle all frequencies well, particularly the mid ones, you get used to it and get to like it.

About the people that used the M8 with other supplies, and got zero difference, that's only useful if they did bypass the internal supplies. 

DIYinhk sells XMOS DAC boards that has inputs for external linear supplies, so in spite of modern chips being better, I guess is because DC-DC designs would have to be a LOT better (and expen$ive) to improve on a good linear supply.

My question is supposed to be answered by people that actually did bypass the internal supplies, and what were their findings.

I doubt anyone would have done this.
It requires hefty modifications.

Do you have an M8/M8a? Because it sounds perfectly fine (M8) out of the box and is very resolving.
If you want to mess with it then I suggest you buy a used one from ebay Or wait for massdrop and then mod it!

 

[jkorten]

Quote: See answers embedded after ">"

 
The only time I have experienced differences with audio products with power supplies in the past is when the power isn't clean from the original power supply (even if that supply is USB).
 
If you read reviews on the M8 many people did them and also bought linear power supplies or built them and experienced 0 difference. Even major audio publications tried it out and didn't experience a difference.
Power supply quality today is inherently good even at a very rock bottom price.
 
 
>for goodness' sake don't trust anybody else's ears! Power supply quality varies greatly. I substituted Hexfreds for diodes in a $6000 preamp and the sound was immensely improved. You may think parts quality is good, but the right part in the right place is what matters. A switching power supply without the right low impedance capacitor at the input to the switcher will >suck. Even if the capacitor used is "good". 
 
 
Once again this is due to the extremely good IC's of today. Even our "crappy" processes are worlds ahead of what they were 10+ years ago.
 
>design matters more than parts.
 
When you check into the parts used even in most of these large "name brand" audio devices, they are often no different then what is used in cheaper offerings (like ths SMSL and Topping products).
Also the price of these parts are insanely cheap, most DAC's are under $20 for the actual chips. TI has a number of them under $10 (as do most DAC companies) and they are sonically better than what was available 10+ years ago (unless you were in the bleeding edge).
Most of the "highest regarded" OPAmp's come from TI and cost between $0.75 and $10 so when you look at products in the thousands and they are using $50 worth of parts there is no magic there....
 
> again design matters more than parts

I actually find it funny to see people swearing by these overpriced niche products that are literally made of the same components as some of the cheap even sometimes portable offerings.
Also every DAC company these days has a competing "flagship" DAC and most companies selling stand-alone DAC's are advertising their ability to have 384 or even 786hz audio decoding or DSD512 playback. When in reality 90%+ of music is 16/44.1 or 24/96 or 24/48.
I'm not saying that 24/192 cannot sound better, but you won't find things recorded like this and if you are a person like me or my wife who actually listen to music for hours on end on a regular basis you can bet that most likely you will be listening to a streaming service that won't go above the aforementioned qualities.
 
>many fine quality recordings at 192K and DSD we need to encourage this. But don't equate casual listening with religious audiophilia! We need your support!

 

[WannaBeOCer]

Is it possible to get this SMSL M8 DAC to work with secure boot enabled? I have the Pre 2016 SMSL M8 and it was working perfectly before I got Windows 10 installed. Now it tells me something is wrong with the driver signature.