[notaglove]

Alright, so I just bought the HD650/6XX on Massdrop and I want to be fully prepared when they arrive. The Amps I have been considering are all made by Schiit because it seems like they have a good price to performance ratio and I want the most bang for my buck. I'm willing to spend up to 500 dollars, but don't want to unless absolutely necessary. I was originally considering Schiit's tube offerings, but found out that tubes are slower than Solid States. I am coming from HD598 and those are perfect in terms of speed, but the HD650's I have purchased are said to be a bit on the slow side. I use my headphones for gaming and music with a focus on the gaming. I don't want my cans to end up sounding super slow when put in combo with a tube amp. Am I worrying about nothing? Or is it more sensible in my case to buy a Solid State for that quicker feel. I considered the Lyr2 since it has the ability to switch between SS and tube, but its pricey and I have to pay extra for the solid state component.

If SS is the way to go, I'm thinking of the Asgard2.

I play FPS games so the speed and frenetic nature of things is what makes my heart pound and why I love gaming, so the Amp will be a waste of money if it doesn't allow for good FPS gaming.

TL;DR: Is a tube amp plus HD650 too slow for frenetic/extremely quick games like Rainbow 6: Siege where hearing the enemy first is critical (also having the audio cause you to react. If the audio doesn't jar you to action then it is useless), and if so what Solid State amp would you recommend in place of the Asgard2 for use with HD650 that has the potential to be used on higher end cans from Sennheiser in the future (or just recommend Asgard2!)

Thanks for reading my long winded post, and thanks in advance for any recommendations or insight.

 

[MindsMirror]

When people refer to an amp or headphone as being "slow" they are referring to its tonal character which gives the perception of music being slow in some way. I don't even know exactly what "slow" sounds like, it's a vague subjective term, but I do know in this context it is not referring to the delay or latency, which I think was your concern with competitive FPS games.

 

[cossix]

Your story mirrors mine pretty accurately. Started out with HD598 and Modi 2/Magni 2 for gaming. From there I upgraded to Jotunheim with balanced dac and couldn't be happier. The separation is much better than single ended through the stack, and the high frequencies are brought up a bit which lifts the famous "veil" of the 650. The Jot also puts almost a watt into 300 ohms balanced, compared to the sub-300mW the Magni puts out. I highly recommend balanced Jotunheim for the 650, as it's basically the best value for that budget

 

[notaglove]

When people refer to an amp or headphone as being "slow" they are referring to its tonal character which gives the perception of music being slow in some way. I don't even know exactly what "slow" sounds like, it's a vague subjective term, but I do know in this context it is not referring to the delay or latency, which I think was your concern with competitive FPS games.

I didn't mean latency, I must meant that when things are happening really fast in a game and the sound seems to be very quick in tone your heart starts to pump and you get absorbed into the game. This, for me, is critical to winning those 1 v 3 situations in R6: Siege. The listening to the audio really accelerates my mind and heart to the point that I am much more energized and focused. I want the audio to feel energized and I feel that the slow quality will feel more relaxing instead of energizing.

 

[notaglove]

Your story mirrors mine pretty accurately. Started out with HD598 and Modi 2/Magni 2 for gaming. From there I upgraded to Jotunheim with balanced dac and couldn't be happier. The separation is much better than single ended through the stack, and the high frequencies are brought up a bit which lifts the famous "veil" of the 650. The Jot also puts almost a watt into 300 ohms balanced, compared to the sub-300mW the Magni puts out. I highly recommend balanced Jotunheim for the 650, as it's basically the best value for that budget

Do you really think its the balanced output that made the difference or is it the increase in power?

 

[cossix]

Balanced helped with separation, amp helped brighten it up. And it's probably the most cost effective balanced setup ever made

Do you really think its the balanced output that made the difference or is it the increase in power?

 

[chef8489]

Balanced helped with separation, amp helped brighten it up. And it's probably the most cost effective balanced setup ever made

How do you think changing just the ground changed the separation?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I didn't mean latency, I must meant that when things are happening really fast in a game and the sound seems to be very quick in tone your heart starts to pump and you get absorbed into the game. This, for me, is critical to winning those 1 v 3 situations in R6: Siege. The listening to the audio really accelerates my mind and heart to the point that I am much more energized and focused. I want the audio to feel energized and I feel that the slow quality will feel more relaxing instead of energizing.

Music and game/movie audio are different things. What some perceive as "slow" for music won't necessarily be so for games/movies. This is because, past things like software issues and playback speed (ie you can actually tweak this in software), the most common reason for why music can seem "slow" is when you have say a jazz beat and the bass drum and viola instead of going "thud, thud, thud" and "dub, dadadadadadadwoooom" do something more like "THWUUDTHWUUDTHWUUUD" and "DWOOMDWAADWAADWAADWAADWAADWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM." The whole presentation "seems" slow because the beat notes are melding into each other thanks to the extremely boosted bass, or boosted bass with a distorting amp. Twp of the easiest tracks to show this on some systems is Feist's One Evening and Epica's Sensorium.

This however isn't automatically a disadvantage with games and movies since the same kind of system response that does the latter kind is also the same kind that rocks the house or your head when something blows up. And it isn't even totally consistent with music either - barring distortion and nasty acoustic issues (or mind altering substances, which can be prevalent with how some people enjoy some music genres), music like this one will actually benefit more from that kind of bass response than seemingly sound slower.

And even if it has to do with background music on games, you're still more likely to have something like the latter example than either of the first two. I mean, off the bat, the only thing that comes close to anything like the first two are the Italian map in Counter Strike and Total War games, which, with the exception of Shogun, are mostly vocals and strings (Rome and Empire), and barely have any beat to begin with (except, again, the drums on Shogun II battles, and one drum track on Rome II).

 

[cossix]

How do you think changing just the ground changed the separation?

Beats me, but I tried SE vs balanced in a blind test and was able to pick out the Balanced on 9 of 10 tracks. And since the separation was the major difference I heard, it's either the cable or the extra power (900mW into the XLR). I'm not saying it's only the extra ground because it could be that more power helps it a bit too. But its either one or both of those things

 

[notaglove]

Music and game/movie audio are different things. What some perceive as "slow" for music won't necessarily be so for games/movies. This is because, past things like software issues and playback speed (ie you can actually tweak this in software), the most common reason for why music can seem "slow" is when you have say a jazz beat and the bass drum and viola instead of going "thud, thud, thud" and "dub, dadadadadadadwoooom" do something more like "THWUUDTHWUUDTHWUUUD" and "DWOOMDWAADWAADWAADWAADWAADWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM." The whole presentation "seems" slow because the beat notes are melding into each other thanks to the extremely boosted bass, or boosted bass with a distorting amp. Twp of the easiest tracks to show this on some systems is Feist's One Evening and Epica's Sensorium.

This however isn't automatically a disadvantage with games and movies since the same kind of system response that does the latter kind is also the same kind that rocks the house or your head when something blows up. And it isn't even totally consistent with music either - barring distortion and nasty acoustic issues (or mind altering substances, which can be prevalent with how some people enjoy some music genres), music like this one will actually benefit more from that kind of bass response than seemingly sound slower.

And even if it has to do with background music on games, you're still more likely to have something like the latter example than either of the first two. I mean, off the bat, the only thing that comes close to anything like the first two are the Italian map in Counter Strike and Total War games, which, with the exception of Shogun, are mostly vocals and strings (Rome and Empire), and barely have any beat to begin with (except, again, the drums on Shogun II battles, and one drum track on Rome II).

Ok thanks for that. I'm not a basshead and don't want super bassy sound signature for music or for games, so in my case I should probably choose a solid state amp, right? I just want things to be as accurate as possible (and yes I know I chose the 650 over the 600).

EDIT: I should also mention since I haven't before that I love listening to most types of music as well so I'm looking for an all arounder rather than something that only works for one medium or one genre

EDIT 2: That's why I considered the Lyr2 becuase it can be SS or Tube. But if my preferences seem more like tube or SS I would much rather buy the cheaper version that is not an all in one

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Ok thanks for that. I'm not a basshead and don't want super bassy sound signature for music or for games, so in my case I should probably choose a solid state amp, right

Tubes don't necessarily add bass, more of rolling off the treble a bit, and even then that really depends on the circuit design. It comes down more to price and versatility - solid state amps don't have to cost a lot of money to kick out a lot of power (even in Class A mode) into a low impedance load, which is great for low impedance, low sensitivity headphone (and high impedance headphones tend to have a high sensitivity anyway; it's more a matter of not severely dropping in voltage output at high impedance). Less expensive pure tube amps are OTL designs and while they can pour a lot of voltage into high impedance loads, their output drops when presented low impedance loads, and have a high output impedance. Pure tube amps with the same all-around performance as decent solid state amps are push-pull designs that are expensive for a number of reasons: more tubes, more transformers, larger and heavier and impacts shipping costs at every step.

I just want things to be as accurate as possible (and yes I know I chose the 650 over the 600).

they're both close to neutral, it's more a matter of choosing which way they are not neutral you can live with. It's between the earlier low bass roll off and 3500hz peak on the HD600 vs the taller and wider bass plateau on the HD650 where it's also weaker above 1000hz.

Differences aren't really easy to hear when you relax the clamp (by bending the metal frame), which also prolongs the life of the earpads.

EDIT: I should also mention since I haven't before that I love listening to most types of music as well so I'm looking for an all arounder rather than something that only works for one medium or one genre

It's really a lot less of genre but what compromise in sound you prefer to live with.

EDIT 2: That's why I considered the Lyr2 becuase it can be SS or Tube. But if my preferences seem more like tube or SS I would much rather buy the cheaper version that is not an all in one

The tube barely colors the sound on the Lyr2 and from what I gather the LISST basically colors it slightly towards the other direction, so might as well stick with the tubes.

Look into Violectric too.

 

[bixby]

As @ProtegeManiac has stated the lsst does push the tone of schiit amps to the "typical solid state" sound. I feel it does more than that and adds some grain and an analytical nature. I preferred glass tubes in the several schiit amps where I heard the lsst swapped in.

 

[notaglove]

Ok, so I think I better understand what Protoge is saying, but now I'm not sure if Schiit is for me.

Anyone know a good DAC/AMP or plain AMP that is under 400 dollars that they know sounds excellent. I don't have any audio stores near me to try things out at so I really need some suggestions. I'm willing to go up to 500 if I must as well, but that's not ideal. I've also decided against tubes because I'm a very forgetful person and I don't want to leave them on so long that I break them. I've read that that can be an issue. So any SS suggestions would be awesome

 

[bixby]

In my experience the best sounding amps anywhere near $500 with the Senn 650 were:

Elekit TU-8200DX
mjolnir2
Chord Mojo
Eddie Current Super 7
Lyr2
1217 polaris
Lake People G109s
Schiit Vali2



Well hyped amps that did not sound so great with my 650s:
SPL Phonitor
Crack
Darkvoice
La Figaro
Jotenheim
Benchmark Dac-1 amp section
Asgard2

 

[notaglove]

In my experience the best sounding amps anywhere near $500 with the Senn 650 were:

Elekit TU-8200DX
mjolnir2
Chord Mojo
Eddie Current Super 7
Lyr2
1217 polaris
Lake People G109s
Schiit Vali2



Well hyped amps that did not sound so great with my 650s:
SPL Phonitor
Crack
Darkvoice
La Figaro
Jotenheim
Benchmark Dac-1 amp section
Asgard

cool. Thanks. I'm thinking of buying the Mojo. I like the idea of being able to take it with me once I've finally gotten a good sounding pair of portable phones or IEMs. I think my goal is to get Sennheiser IE80s sometime next year after I've recouped the money spent on the Mojos.

Is there any site that people generally buy their audio equipment from that is cheaper than Amazon besides Massdrop? I'm looking to buy new bc I can't stand scratches and other things and don't want my new gear to fail on me (plus warranty is nice).