[A Polish Ginger]

I need someone to confirm if I'm just being stupid or the HD 650s / my setup actually has an issue. See I like my music loud, and for some reason the right driver in my HD 650s seems to buzz/rattle at low frequencies. I have had this happen to me twice now.
 
First pair, of HD 650s, I had hooked up to a Fiio AMP and DAC setup and lasted me about 2 years or so before they started to rattle. Also only happening in the right driver not the left. I did buy them used so I wasn't that upset about it.
 
I sent them in for repair and purchase a new AMP and DAC as well, Schiit Modi 2 and Magni 2. I got the new repaired pair back and after about 5 months the rattle came back, Only in the right driver not the left, or at least doesn't seem that dominate in the left.
 
I did have the AMP set on high and the volume turned up almost to max quite frequently, but my thinking was since they are 300 ohms that it could handle it. Also low was okay, listening wise, but at max levels all the time, if I ever have it in low.
 
I did try my HD8 pair as well and I had those on low since they were only like 98 ohms, but they started to distort a bit after a couple of weeks use and I just put them back because I want at least one pair that does bass well.
 
So is it just me having too high expectations for these headphones (HD650) and breaking them because I did something wrong, or is it just how these headphones operate. That you are not suppose to be blasting them at all and enjoy the sound at moderate levels. If so then these are not the headphones for me. Is there another pair that are as comfortable as the HD650s but can be relatively loud and somewhat similar in sound quality?
 
Also I'm a novice when it comes to audio so if someone could tell me what is "too loud" for headphones that would be cool. Because if it is my own fault (which it probably is) I do not wish to repeat these costly mistakes again.
 
Sincerely,
              A Polish Ginger

 

[NA Blur]

The impedance, ohms as you call it, does not tell the max output the headphone can handle. Having any headphone on full volume can be detrimental especially if it is much louder than would be considered average listening levels by most people...say around 65dB. The last thing to look into is see if some particulate like a hair is stuck behind the earpad filter ( foam insert inside the earcup ). You can try to gently vacuum this area out and see if the buzz goes away. but for now keep the volume to reasonable listening levels to ensure that the excessive driver movement is not causing them to fail.

 

[SeaWo|f]

I've had my hd650s for 7 years and they are still going strong. And unless I'm missing something I've very very rarely heard of reliability problems with them. It would be interesting to take a measurement of what sound pressure you are listening at if you are tuning it all the way up on high gain. If it's close to our past the max of what the drivers can do then i would expect failures. But either way your ears will go out if you continue like this so it might be a moot point sadly. I would seriously consider modifying your listening habits for your own long term hear.

 

[EinZweiDrei]

sounds like you driven it to distortion and your running out of headroom.

 

[tjl5709]

  sounds like you driven it to distortion and your running out of headroom.

I agree.
 
Get yourself a schiit bifrost and lyr2 and I doubt you will be having an issue with the phones "rattling". They will play very loud, and sound good doing it.

 

[A Polish Ginger]

Ah so its just me. My earring is shot anyways with working/driving a 1970 454 vette and super sport motorcycles. Is there like a Audio Meter that I can download onto my computer so I can see what the max volume is before I start breaking things, because obviously my ears can't tell.  

 

[A Polish Ginger]

 
I agree.
 
Get yourself a schiit bifrost and lyr2 and I doubt you will be having an issue with the phones "rattling". They will play very loud, and sound good doing it.

 
But won't I still be breaking them if I play them that loud, or does spending more money grant you more gain without breaking the headphones? 

 

[daniel422]

Clean out your headphones!  
Check out this thread...  I had the exact same issues with my HD580s a long time ago(!!!).  This is a common issue with the HD580/600/650 setup.  Also check the cable connection on that side.  Those are also prone to failure.  Before cable replacements were easily available I actually hard-soldered mine to bypass the cruddy connector Sennheiser uses on those models.  
http://www.head-fi.org/t/44624/buzzing-hd580
 
FYI - you can drive the crud out of those things no problem.  I've hard shorted my 580s to +15V DC (ooops!  Damn that bad -15V rail on my old DAC!) and cranked on them with 30Vpp sine waves (that works out to about 374mW into 300ohms).  You can't actually listen to it at that level, unless you are across the room.  I can pretty much guarantee you aren't listening to them as loud as that. 
Robust.  
The 650s are no less. 
Clean and enjoy for many years to come!

  My HD580s are now 16 years old and (with cable upgrades, and earpad/headpad replacements just last year) better than ever!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Polish Ginger /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I did have the AMP set on high and the volume turned up almost to max quite frequently, but my thinking was since they are 300 ohms that it could handle it. Also low was okay, listening wise, but at max levels all the time, if I ever have it in low.

 

I did try my HD8 pair as well and I had those on low since they were only like 98 ohms, but they started to distort a bit after a couple of weeks use and I just put them back because I want at least one pair that does bass well.

 

The impedance has nothing to do with how much power the headphone can take, only that it can affect how much power the amplifier puts out. An amp like the Magni2 will output less power at 300ohms than at 98ohms, but an amp like the Valhalla2 will make a lot more power at 300ohms than at 98ohms.

 

Also...if you had it on high gain and near max volume setting, you might want to visit an ENT. You've either damaged your ears by now, or the reason why you can take that much decibels is because you have severe enough earwax build up inside your ear canals. No, cleaning it with Q-Tip doesn't help, and in fact might make it worse, since the shape of those things are more conducive to pushing than pulling. The best way to clean your ears apart from having your mother use those bamboo sticks with hooks on one end and some doll head on the other (which made us think little panda's coming to help clean us up - yes, it's just a psychological tool to get children to actually be down for that), especially when you've grown up enough that it will just be ridiculous to have your mother do that, is to have an ENT with a similar tool (among others) but this time it's fancy titanium.
 
Seriously, I even picked out what I wanted - in my case it was Hello Kitty or a Panda, which went great with my Batman toothbrush. Do NOT use this on your own ears unless you have a Spec-Ops grade camera to see what you're doing.

 
 
 

 
So is it just me having too high expectations for these headphones (HD650) and breaking them because I did something wrong, or is it just how these headphones operate. That you are not suppose to be blasting them at all and enjoy the sound at moderate levels. If so then these are not the headphones for me. Is there another pair that are as comfortable as the HD650s but can be relatively loud and somewhat similar in sound quality?

 
Any transducer - headphone and speaker - will break if you run it loud enough. Too little power and it distorts; feed it a lot of power and actually use all that power, and you will force the driver to move in ways it cannot; boost the bass too far, and you force the driver to move back and forth harder. At the same time you might want to read about TINNITUS. 
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinnitus
http://www.head-fi.org/t/148042/how-many-of-you-have-tinnitus
http://www.head-fi.org/t/636259/do-you-have-tinnitus
http://www.head-fi.org/t/442985/does-having-tinnitus-mean-no-more-headphones
 
One of the problem that you might be having is how the HD650 is an open headphone, which lets a lot of ambient sounds through. If you so much as run certain type of temp control settings - in my case, the A/C in one of my windows - you will hear that even at low fan or low power settings. Look into closed back headphones like the Audezee EL-8C or LCD-XC.
 
 

  Also I'm a novice when it comes to audio so if someone could tell me what is "too loud" for headphones that would be cool. Because if it is my own fault (which it probably is) I do not wish to repeat these costly mistakes again.

 
Not a very accurate way to tell, but at least get some SPL apps in your phone. Listen first to the headphones as your normally would, then put the phone mic between the earcups and run a 1000hz sine wave (Google "tone generator"). If all the apps read anywhere above 88dB, go see a doctor. Mine only reads 78dB on the HD600 with this inaccurate set-up for my normal listening, and when I set it to get 80dB they were damn unusable on my ears.

 

[A Polish Ginger]

Thank you gentlemen, I learned so many new things. I didn't think playing a pair of headphones on a AMP that can't drive them all the way would distort them if played to loud. I guess there is a fine balance point, like a lot of things in life. I also appreciate the care for my hearing, and I'll cut some of my habits, but do not worry. I'll head over to Audio Consultants after a cleaning to see if I was just playing them to loud without sufficient power, and if they can be saved or not. Again thank you for helping out this novice.
 
Sincerely,
              A Polish Ginger

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Polish Ginger /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Thank you gentlemen, I learned so many new things. I didn't think playing a pair of headphones on a AMP that can't drive them all the way would distort them if played to loud. I guess there is a fine balance point, like a lot of things in life. I also appreciate the care for my hearing, and I'll cut some of my habits, but do not worry. I'll head over to Audio Consultants after a cleaning to see if I was just playing them to loud without sufficient power, and if they can be saved or not. Again thank you for helping out this novice.

 

 

You can get distortion a lot of ways - either the harmonic distortion from an amp that's being pushed into audible distortion level (or clipping), and you can simply push a transducer beyond what it can physically do. The only reason why it's safer to go for a more powerful amp is that it can push out a lot of power even before you get to audible distortion levels, but that assumes you will also listen at sane levels because, conversely, if you always listen at sane levels on reasonably efficient headphones, there's really no need to get an amp with a power supply design or size that would have worked on a speaker amp.

 

[mysticstryk]

Having owned a Magni 2 and hd650, having it on high gain with the volume knob at max isn't just damaging your hearing, you a literally destroying your hearing.  Has to be well over 130 db, most likely more.

 

[techboy]

  Having owned a Magni 2 and hd650, having it on high gain with the volume knob at max isn't just damaging your hearing, you a literally destroying your hearing.  Has to be well over 130 db, most likely more.

A Magni 2 at full volume on high gain with a HD 650 would probably blow away his can drivers and leave him deaf over some time.
 
I am sure he isn't listening anywhere near as loud. Even if he is young and likes to party, I doubt his average SPL would be more than 90-95 SPL for short intervals, tops!

 

[mysticstryk]

  A Magni 2 at full volume on high gain with a HD 650 would probably blow away his can drivers and leave him deaf over some time.
 
I am sure he isn't listening anywhere near as loud. Even if he is young and likes to party, I doubt his average SPL would be more than 90-95 SPL for short intervals, tops!

 
The OP said he would have it on high gain at almost max volume frequently.  I would tend to agree that it would be near impossible, but I've never tested mine that loud myself for obvious reasons.

 

[tomb]

 

  A Magni 2 at full volume on high gain with a HD 650 would probably blow away his can drivers and leave him deaf over some time.
 
I am sure he isn't listening anywhere near as loud. Even if he is young and likes to party, I doubt his average SPL would be more than 90-95 SPL for short intervals, tops!

 
The OP said he would have it on high gain at almost max volume frequently.  I would tend to agree that it would be near impossible, but I've never tested mine that loud myself for obvious reasons.

 
One thing I've learned in my years around here ... we really have no clue what the OP is really doing on his own system.  He could have the OS volume turned down really low and has been constantly pushing the DAC/amplifier string to bring it back up.  Or, he could be constantly dialing in a bunch of bass through equalization, etc.  There is really no telling from the info given here.
 
Rather than digress on all of these assumptions about sound level, it may just be best to recommend having someone look at the headphones and see what caused the failure.