Chord Electronics - Hugo 2 - The Official Thread
May 21, 2017 at 10:45 PM Post #3,571 of 22,475
A year ago I visited a store to test the Hugo 1. I brought there my HD800. I ended up buying a Hugo TT and an HD800S.

It’s my first audio equipment ever I didn’t want to replace (true for both).

But we have this thing called Internet. Unfortunately, I have found this thread. I see you are waiting for the device. Until it arrives, let’s suppose the numbers are all true. In this case, do I get it right the Hugo 2 may sound better than the Hugo TT?

This isn’t a single question but two. Does it sound better than the TT in general (let’s say, with a proper amp), and can it drive an HD800S standalone, as the TT can?

I understand most of you are waiting for it. That’s why I wrote let’s suppose all the numbers are true.

I’m not a pro regarding these values, and the real issue is I found little data about the Hugo TT. I checked the user manual, the website, and I was doing a web research until google begged me to stop it but I still have fewer data about the Hugo TT, which is an existing device, than about the Hugo 2, which is not existent.

For example, Hugo 2’s page states:

Power output @ 1kHz 1% THD:
94mW 300Ω
740mW 33Ω
1050mW 8Ω

(I’m not sure this is the data I need but I guess it is)

I didn’t find the same data for the TT. Maybe if it was there, on the site, or in the manual, it would be too easy to copy the device and produce it in China, or I don’t know. I wonder why it’s there for the rest of the devices.

All I know the TT sounds amazing with the HD800S. At least compared to everything else I’ve tried. I haven’t had vacuum tube headphone amps. TT replaced an MHDT Havana, which I loved, and random amps I didn’t like that much.

I get this TAP-thingie is important, but what about the rest?

It doesn’t help much seeing while some comments compare the Hugo 2 to the Dave, other comments compare it to the Mojo. This is confusing. It’s obvious I didn’t like the Hugo 1, otherwise, I didn’t spend twice amount on the TT, but the store where I could try (as far as I read here, at Christmas, but don’t know which year) is far away.

Ordering it would be easy if only the "let’s compare it to the Dave" comments would have been posted. On the other hand, unlike the TT, the Dave has power output specs. I’ve never heard the Dave. I guess it’s not bad. I also guess it can deal with the HD800S. Should I check the 300Ω output, or is it something else?

Would it be sane to order the Hugo 2, without testing it, and expect it to reach the quality of the TT, based on the numbers?

(I would not replace the TT. I would use both. But going backwards is no-no, ever)


Look. I think this endless talk about amplifier A,B,C, etc. being able to drive cans x,y and z has got you confused. The vast majority of headphone amps, and even the headphone outputs of computers can drive your headphones to levels that will threaten to harm your hearing. They are powerful enough to drive your cans, have no fear. The issue is how well they will sound while doing it and no amount of specs saying how many watts into how many Ohms will help you there. You will have to have a listen, like you seem to wisely have done before you purchased your TT, or you will have to trust the reviews of other people.

"This isn’t a single question but two. Does it sound better than the TT in general (let’s say, with a proper amp), and can it drive an HD800S standalone, as the TT can?"
It can drive the HD800S, have no fear, but no one really knows if it will sound better since it has not really been released.

"Would it be sane to order the Hugo 2, without testing it, and expect it to reach the quality of the TT, based on the numbers?"
No. A sane person would compare the Hugo 2 to what he already has. The "numbers" mean little if anything.

Relax. The TT is great and you have it. Enjoy.
 
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May 21, 2017 at 11:59 PM Post #3,572 of 22,475
on paper TT is more powerful due to the supercapacitors but due to hugo2's increased interpolation taps 49K+ the hugo2 should be able to resolve the microdetail in music to a higher degree? maybe wait for hugo TT2? the insertion of something of a different nature into something else? there is no fool proof end solution in high end audio as the technology seems to evolve exponentially. you have to decide based on your budget where to start, be happy then stop. i wouldn't be surprised if hugo 3 appears in 2.5 years from now. hope that helps. i also think clearly identifying what it is you want is important too. :atm::end::thinking:

I don’t feel the urge to upgrade or replace the TT.

I’d love to have similar sound quality outside. The plan isn’t using it with a phone but with a Macbook Pro. The iPhone is okay for listening to music, but the MBP needs support for working with music or enjoying music, and I need to get fresh air. (My hobbies and my work look the same. Sitting front of a computer describes the visuals).

For multiple reasons, I won’t put the TT or the TT2 into my backpack. It’ll stay loyal to its name and live on my table. But a Hugo-sized device with the sound of the TT would deliver me the long waited issue of finding headphones for outdoors. While I like my Shure 846, they are in pair with the iPhone. They don’t benefit much from the Hugo TT. So, Hugo 2 would mean new headphones. The Momentum hurts my ears.

The real issue would be if the Hugo 2 turned out a decent upgrade from the TT because I couldn’t use the TT anymore, but I don’t want to connect and disconnect all the cables day by day.

The ideal case would be the same or slightly better sound quality, and then someone kind person could recommend me headphones that wouldn't die in the first rain* and aren’t larger than my head.

* I don’t want to use them as an umbrella. Still, I would never use the HD800S outside. It feels delicate to bring it to the sunlight and dust and all the staff out there. Fortunately, the difference between the Hugo 1 and the TT is huge enough to prevent me from buying the Hugo 1. I rather stay at home, problem solved.
 
May 22, 2017 at 12:28 AM Post #3,573 of 22,475
Look. I think this endless talk about amplifier A,B,C, etc. being able to drive cans x,y and z has got you confused. The vast majority of headphone amps, and even the headphone outputs of computers can drive your headphones to levels that will threaten to harm your hearing. They are powerful enough to drive your cans, have no fear. The issue is how well they will sound while doing it and no amount of specs saying how many watts into how many Ohms will help you there.

In the end you might be right, but from the logical point of view, I see flaws.

Almost every healthy person could knock you out (after some practicing) if they can run for five meters and they use their elbow. (Let’s suppose you don’t defend and don’t move.)

Bruce Lee could have knocked you out starting the punch from a few inches from your chin, and without moving most of his body.

Just because an amp can provide enough output power for loudness on "long term" (I mean "long term" as a fraction of a second), it’s not proven they can "follow" the music.

My Arcam excelled with loudspeakers and failed with the HD800. And before you would tell me there was one more amp in it for the speakers, it also sounded good with the HD600.

And the volume control was usually at 5-8% when I used it with the Havana. Let me not try to imagine what would have happened with 3-4 times higher volume setting and using any of the headphones.

I might be wrong, or the capacitors in the TT might be there exactly for this reason. They are not needed for the output level. They don’t provide additional power. They are there for the Bruce Lee punches.

Relax. The TT is great, and you have it. Enjoy.

I agree. If it were the TT2, I wouldn’t be so interested. Sometimes the TT is already too good for the music I like, and not too good in a way as other devices were (they were punishing). The TT is excellent and precise and forgiving the same time. That’s why I love it so much.

But the Hugo 2 is mobile. It would affect my daily life. It’s not that I would enjoy the time I spend outside more. I would spend more time outside.
 
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May 22, 2017 at 12:35 AM Post #3,574 of 22,475
on paper TT is more powerful due to the supercapacitors but due to hugo2's increased interpolation taps 49K+ the hugo2 should be able to resolve the microdetail in music to a higher degree? maybe wait for hugo TT2? the insertion of something of a different nature into something else? there is no fool proof end solution in high end audio as the technology seems to evolve exponentially. you have to decide based on your budget where to start, be happy then stop. i wouldn't be surprised if hugo 3 appears in 2.5 years from now. hope that helps. i also think clearly identifying what it is you want is important too. :atm::end::thinking:

Wrong. On paper the TT has largely the same output power as the Hugo1 and Mojo, but with higher current bias.

There's more to pairing with headphones than just output power. The Hugo2 is slightly more powerful than the Mojo, Hugo1, and HugoTT, but whether it synergizes with someone's preference is a different story.
 
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May 22, 2017 at 12:44 AM Post #3,575 of 22,475
A year ago I visited a store to test the Hugo 1. I brought there my HD800. I ended up buying a Hugo TT and an HD800S.

It’s my first audio equipment ever I didn’t want to replace (true for both).

But we have this thing called Internet. Unfortunately, I have found this thread. I see you are waiting for the device. Until it arrives, let’s suppose the numbers are all true. In this case, do I get it right the Hugo 2 may sound better than the Hugo TT?

This isn’t a single question but two. Does it sound better than the TT in general (let’s say, with a proper amp), and can it drive an HD800S standalone, as the TT can?

I understand most of you are waiting for it. That’s why I wrote let’s suppose all the numbers are true.

I’m not a pro regarding these values, and the real issue is I found little data about the Hugo TT. I checked the user manual, the website, and I was doing a web research until google begged me to stop it but I still have fewer data about the Hugo TT, which is an existing device, than about the Hugo 2, which is not existent.

For example, Hugo 2’s page states:

Power output @ 1kHz 1% THD:
94mW 300Ω
740mW 33Ω
1050mW 8Ω

(I’m not sure this is the data I need but I guess it is)

I didn’t find the same data for the TT. Maybe if it was there, on the site, or in the manual, it would be too easy to copy the device and produce it in China, or I don’t know. I wonder why it’s there for the rest of the devices.

All I know the TT sounds amazing with the HD800S. At least compared to everything else I’ve tried. I haven’t had vacuum tube headphone amps. TT replaced an MHDT Havana, which I loved, and random amps I didn’t like that much.

I get this TAP-thingie is important, but what about the rest?

It doesn’t help much seeing while some comments compare the Hugo 2 to the Dave, other comments compare it to the Mojo. This is confusing. It’s obvious I didn’t like the Hugo 1, otherwise, I didn’t spend twice amount on the TT, but the store where I could try (as far as I read here, at Christmas, but don’t know which year) is far away.

Ordering it would be easy if only the "let’s compare it to the Dave" comments would have been posted. On the other hand, unlike the TT, the Dave has power output specs. I’ve never heard the Dave. I guess it’s not bad. I also guess it can deal with the HD800S. Should I check the 300Ω output, or is it something else?

Would it be sane to order the Hugo 2, without testing it, and expect it to reach the quality of the TT, based on the numbers?

(I would not replace the TT. I would use both. But going backwards is no-no, ever)

Here is the output power spec for Mojo, Hugo1 and HugoTT:

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/chord-hugo.702787/page-954#post-13070560

Its because the figures are nonsense.

Hugo actual output is:
Output power - 1KHz 1V sinewave both channels driven 0.1% distortion
600 Ohms 35mW
300 Ohms 70mW
56 Ohms 320mW
32 Ohms 600mW
8 Ohms 720mW
Also Hugo TT share identical output stages, (except for increased bias current), same PSU voltage, same gain. So will deliver almost identical power for a given battery voltage.

Rob

As I mentioned, synergy is important and the tuning of the device to match with the headphone's for your preference is more important than just the output power, once there is more than enough, which the Mojo, Hugo1, HugoTT and Hugo2 all have for the HD800S.

The Hugo2 reference to the DAVE is based on the improvements Rob has achieved with the DAVE that he was able to partially implement in the Hugo2. The reference to the Mojo is based on the warm filter which is more like the Mojo vs the white filter which is more incisive. The Hugo2 has a 10e Pulse Array DAC which, compared to the HugoTT's 4e Pulse Array should also contribute to improved sound quality.

As far as desktop useage, Rob has taken pains to prevent stressing the battery from being near a high state of charge for extended periods so I imagine it would work well in a desktop scenario.
 
May 22, 2017 at 2:14 AM Post #3,576 of 22,475
Here is the output power spec for Mojo, Hugo1 and HugoTT:
The Hugo2 reference to the DAVE is based on the improvements Rob has achieved with the DAVE that he was able to partially implement in the Hugo2. The reference to the Mojo is based on the warm filter which is more like the Mojo vs the white filter which is more incisive. The Hugo2 has a 10e Pulse Array DAC which, compared to the HugoTT's 4e Pulse Array should also contribute to improved sound quality.

Thank you. Now I understand it better (your whole post helped).

It biased me towards ordering the Hugo 2.

I wonder what I would have thought of the Hugo 1 if the Hugo TT wasn’t there. Compared to the TT, it sounded thin, dry, and sad with both Sennheiser, but I can’t tell how much, and the unplanned comparison of the HD800 and the HD800S taxed my ears as well. From that day, I didn’t use the HD800 anymore, not even once, maybe I should try it outdoors. Except for the size, it doesn’t look bad either. I remember it stressed my ears a way Sennheiser eliminated in the 800S for, let’s say, 90%.

I believe the problem with the Momentum is the pressure, and the problem with the HD800 is a particular frequency, which depends on the music as well.

I have never tested the HD700.

My point is, if the Hugo 2 would be only at half way between the Hugo 1 and the TT, considering the size and the price, I think it would already find its place in my life. As far as I understood you, that’s what one can expect even in the worst case, and the top expectation is above the sky.

The other question is when to order. I usually try to avoid ordering recently released electronics. It has already helped with computers, cameras, phones. I don’t know if it has any use for audio and especially Chord. My bet is, it’s not the type of the electronics on which it depends but the particular company.
 
May 22, 2017 at 2:30 AM Post #3,577 of 22,475
Thank you. Now I understand it better (your whole post helped).

It biased me towards ordering the Hugo 2.

I wonder what I would have thought of the Hugo 1 if the Hugo TT wasn’t there. Compared to the TT, it sounded thin, dry, and sad with both Sennheiser, but I can’t tell how much, and the unplanned comparison of the HD800 and the HD800S taxed my ears as well. From that day, I didn’t use the HD800 anymore, not even once, maybe I should try it outdoors. Except for the size, it doesn’t look bad either. I remember it stressed my ears a way Sennheiser eliminated in the 800S for, let’s say, 90%.

I believe the problem with the Momentum is the pressure, and the problem with the HD800 is a particular frequency, which depends on the music as well.

I have never tested the HD700.

My point is, if the Hugo 2 would be only at half way between the Hugo 1 and the TT, considering the size and the price, I think it would already find its place in my life. As far as I understood you, that’s what one can expect even in the worst case, and the top expectation is above the sky.

The other question is when to order. I usually try to avoid ordering recently released electronics. It has already helped with computers, cameras, phones. I don’t know if it has any use for audio and especially Chord. My bet is, it’s not the type of the electronics on which it depends but the particular company.

Personally, looking at the measurements/specs and knowing what Rob has put in to the Hugo2 based on his informative posts in this thread, and also owning a DAVE myself, I expect the Hugo2 to surpass the TT. That's my expectation but I haven't heard the TT or the Hugo2 so it's just my opinion based on the tech and the measurements.

I'm not surprised that you found the Hugo1 too bright for you with the HD800 and you favoured the HugoTT. From my experience with the DAVE its tonality is close to the Mojo but much more refined and MUCH more resolving. If the Hugo2 resolves anywhere close to the DAVE then it's a no-brainer in my opinion, and the different filters will allow you to subtly change the overall tonal balance from the most accurate to the warmest. Tech moves forward and Rob learned a lot from his work on the DAVE.

Here is an informative post by Rob that may be of help to you understanding where the Hugo2 sits in the lineup.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/c...official-thread.831345/page-112#post-13342285

I promised that after Can-Jam Singapore I would publish my slides, so here goes. Apologies in advance if you find it too technical - but we are dealing with an immensely complex subject, and I have tried my best to simplify it as much as possible.



So the opening slide.



So here I am talking about the WTA filter, and I have assumed that the reader is aware of the WTA filter and why the recovery of timing of transients is important - so I assume you know already that more taps gives better accuracy, and much better sound, and that moving from 8 FS (output at 352/384 kHz) to 16 FS (output at 705/768 kHz) is seen as a benefit in SQ due to the improved time resolution of the output.

The FPGA is jam packed - I use all of the available DSP cores, all of the memory, and 99.8% of the logic too. The downside to all this is now the FPGA uses a lot of power, around 800 mW.

The output from the WTA 1 is now passed to another WTA filter (WTA 2) that takes us from 16 FS to 256 FS (output at 11.289.6/12.288 MHz) so now the WTA is working to a resolution of 88 nS.

The filter option is actually a big departure for me - I go for what is technically correct (assuming it sounds best), and don't give options. Now the HF filter is a technically correct option - as using the HF filter with HD files can reduce HF noise from the recording, which is not music but noise shaper ADC distortion and noise - if this gets into the analogue parts it can cause more noise floor modulation, so removing it will make it sound smoother. So having the HF filter is a technically valid option. But the 256 FS filter is always the more accurate option, and will recover the timing much more accurately than not using it. So why did I add this as an option?

Several reasons. I thought it would be cool for people to actually hear the effect of the WTA going from 16 FS to 256 FS. Normally, I do lots of listening tests, and so build up knowledge to allow better designs and future improvements, so I thought it would be good for one to hear the effects of 16 FS to 256 FS. What you hear is an immediate change in the ability to perceive the starting and stopping of notes. This quality is very different to the usual WTA benefits (better timbre, pitch, instrument separation and focus etc) in that being able to perceive the starting edge of a signal (the initial pluck of a string or how the piano sounds when instantly hitting the key) all depends upon timing accuracy going from uS down to tens of nS - so I thought it would be interesting to actually hear what I am talking about directly. Now this filter will be called the incisive option, as calling it Hugo is a bit confusing. Its incisive because you can now perceive the starting and stopping of notes much more clearly - and when the brain can't perceive the leading edges, then it becomes a blur and things sound soft.

The second reason for the filter options is that the incisive revealing nature of the filter does make it sound brighter. Now it is absolutely technically more accurate; it only sounds brighter because the brain can now more accurately perceive the starting and stopping of notes, and the starting and stopping transients have a lot of high frequency energy. When the brain can't perceive something, it simply ignores it, so it then sounds unnaturally soft, in that this is not truly transparent. But sometimes when you have say a bad bright recording, or say hard headphones, having a filter that allows you to hear high frequency energy may be a bit too much. But for sure you are using an aberration to hide another problem. So my advice is this; if you use the 16FS option (orange or red) all the time, then consider getting a warmer set of headphones, or trying out EQ. Normally you should be using white or green - I run with green all the time as its useful with 192 recordings.



So this is fairly straightforward, and with conventional DAC's you can easily measure noise floor modulation. I will be showing the measurements shortly.



OK this is a quick summary of the difficulties involved an having a DAC that has no measurable noise floor modulation, and there is a great deal more besides, as noise floor modulation occurs from a myriad of problems within DAC's.



So this is why I have to filter DSD sources - as without it we would get large amounts of noise floor modulation, and other problems - gurgle noise, distortion etc.
With this filter I wanted top match the abilities of the DSD+ mode in Dave, and I believe I have - I know get that level of sound quality. But to do that I had to have incredible levels of filter attenuation - so with much better than 200 dB, I ensure that THD and noise from the analogue is entirely limited by the DSD 64 digital performance - there is no added THD or significant noise that is not present on the file.




So this is employing the knowledge gained from Dave with noise shapers, so now I am getting much better perception of depth and detail resolution. Incidentally, I have now designed and listened to dozens of noise shapers and every time I got the same result as Dave - better noise shaper performance gives better depth, and the smallest small signal error is audible in terms of depth truncation.




This is the same cross-feed on the original Hugo - indeed its the only piece of code coming from Hugo! But there was an interesting story with it. When developing products you go through many stages - and formal listening tests plays a major part. But then there is the part where you are listening for pleasure, and at these times it is valuable because you can see the scale of where the sound quality is, and its only by listening without consciously testing that one can asses musicality or the ability to get emotional with music. And that is the real reason to be doing all this.

So last December one of the prototypes was ready for listening, and I took it on many flights. I was listening to music, and bells were being played - and the depth was so convincing I thought it was in the plane, and not on the recording. This was a major surprise, as getting headphones to portray good depth has been a major issue. It turned out that the cross-feed setting was crucial - with it off, the sound-stage collapsed, and with it on, I got decent depth from headphones.




Measurements are vitally important, as if you are concerned with making truly transparent devices - and that is the only way ultimately for musicality - then measurements plays a vital part. Now its true that a good sounding device can sound better than a better measured one; but for sure, when you improve the measurements, (now matter how small the measured change is) and with all other things being equal, you will perceive an improvement in SQ.

Additionally - many manufacturers make bold claims - sometimes with the best of intentions (they genuinely believe it is better), sometimes with the intent to deceive at worst or at best to extract cash from you - and then from the measurements you can see that they are talking nonsense. Moreover, I can tell from a suite of measurements pretty much how something will sound, and moreover what is the intent and capability of the designer or design team. So although it is highly fashionable to talk about not caring about doing measurements, to me it is throwing out the baby with the bath water.




So I made some claims about noise floor modulation, and here it proves it - absolutely none, and zero an-harmonic products too.
Now I should add I often see so called measurements of my products on other threads using poor quality test equipment, and hence "proving" that xyz is not that good after all. So I should add that Hugo 2 outperforms test equipment easily. A measurement is not objective reality, it is just data subject to error done at a particular time with particular test equipment. And my DAC's require the absolute state of the art test gear - in this case the APX555. This is the only test equipment that is capable of measuring noise floor modulation, as ADC noise floor modulation is way bigger than Hugo 2 - and the APX 555 uses a special technique with 4 ADC's to overcome the ADC limitation.

We can see also the extraordinary low THD - this is only beaten by Dave.




Now one of the features I used was the second order analogue noise shaper OP stage that first appeared with Dave. The benefit of this technique is that it eliminates crossover distortion, as high frequency distortion does not significantly increase with a 33 ohm load. in the past adding a load of 33 ohms would harden up the sound - now it makes no difference whatsoever.



This shows how isolated the DAC and amp is from the power supply and each channel.



So proof again that is immune from jitter - no artifacts at all. The only thing you can see is a tiny residual at 11 and 13 kHz these are artifacts from my APX555.

I am very happy with these measurements; I am confident that no other non Chord DAC at any price comes close to this level of performance.

Rob
 
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May 22, 2017 at 3:08 AM Post #3,578 of 22,475
I sold my TT in Feb to fund Hugo 2. I miss it very much and just hope Hugo 2 brings the magic back to my music. I didn't expect to wait so long for Hugo 2, patience is not my strongest asset :triportsad:

I have took an educated gamble, I expect Hugo 2 sound quality to surpass that of TT, somewhere between Mojo and Dave would be my guess. You could argue that TT in Chord's lineup is now redundant in that Hugo 2 now offers remote control and usb galvanic isolation is unlikely to be required unless you have a seriously old noisey source or have ground loop issue in your setup.
 
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May 22, 2017 at 4:17 AM Post #3,579 of 22,475
Thank you. Now I understand it better (your whole post helped).

It biased me towards ordering the Hugo 2.

I wonder what I would have thought of the Hugo 1 if the Hugo TT wasn’t there. Compared to the TT, it sounded thin, dry, and sad with both Sennheiser, but I can’t tell how much, and the unplanned comparison of the HD800 and the HD800S taxed my ears as well. From that day, I didn’t use the HD800 anymore, not even once, maybe I should try it outdoors. Except for the size, it doesn’t look bad either. I remember it stressed my ears a way Sennheiser eliminated in the 800S for, let’s say, 90%.

I believe the problem with the Momentum is the pressure, and the problem with the HD800 is a particular frequency, which depends on the music as well.

I have never tested the HD700.

My point is, if the Hugo 2 would be only at half way between the Hugo 1 and the TT, considering the size and the price, I think it would already find its place in my life. As far as I understood you, that’s what one can expect even in the worst case, and the top expectation is above the sky.

The other question is when to order. I usually try to avoid ordering recently released electronics. It has already helped with computers, cameras, phones. I don’t know if it has any use for audio and especially Chord. My bet is, it’s not the type of the electronics on which it depends but the particular company.

Hi, welcome to the site. I own the Hugo1 and had the Hugo TT for a week while reviewing. (Sadly not shown in my signature currently, until a new forum update). I have heard the Dave briefly a few times, and had a 15 minute listen to Hugo 2 at a recent U.K. Head-Fi meet.

I am a big fan of Hugo1, in fact I prefer it's open signature to the Dave! My listening to Dave is only at show conditions and I really appreciate its detail, but it does seem warmer like my Mojo and miss a slight bit of excitement. I would still buy one if I could afford it!

Warm to me does not equate to 'musicality' but I know it does to many. In fact Rob often quotes warm as having less distortion, but then Rob likes Nighthawks, a very warm phone to my ears :) Sorry Rob!

The only Hugo1 pairing I've not been 100% happy with is HD800s. But recently a chance hearing of MrSpeaker Ether's with Hugo will result in my HD800s being put for sale, as although the Hugo1/HD800s are great with some types of music, the Ethers are great with all, and I believe have a terrific synergy with Hugo. Do listen to Ethers with your TT if you get the chance, both open and closed variants.

The biggest immediate improvement to my Hugo I have heard was the Hugo TT. It retained everything I like about Hugo but added a solidity to the sound, in particular to the bass. In hifi terms, it was like listening to a Naim system for the first time after being used to Arcam, Linn and other good makes. A vice-like grip and better PRAT.

So I was expecting similar improvements with Hugo2. Immediately less so, but then it was at a show with my Shure 846s and Huffman headphones rather than connected to a very good home hifi. Like Dave, there were instant improvements in detail, but in a subtle way. I was not sure whether to pre-order and the rest of my time was taken listening to other gear and buying the demo Ether C's from the show.

But overnight I kept thinking about Hugo2 and realised many of the great products I have bought were slow burners, not always night and day instant glorification. I suspect that the Hugo 2s extra detail and purity to sound may just make it a better long term DAC than the TT which I know I love, but again, out of my price range.

Long and short, I pre-ordered Hugo 2 the following day :)
 
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May 22, 2017 at 5:21 AM Post #3,580 of 22,475
Hi, welcome to the site. I own the Hugo1 and had the Hugo TT for a week while reviewing. (Sadly not shown in my signature currently, until a new forum update). I have heard the Dave briefly a few times, and had a 15 minute listen to Hugo 2 at a recent U.K. Head-Fi meet.

I am a big fan of Hugo1, in fact I prefer it's open signature to the Dave! My listening to Dave is only at show conditions and I really appreciate its detail, but it does seem warmer like my Mojo and miss a slight bit of excitement. I would still buy one if I could afford it!

Warm to me does not equate to 'musicality' but I know it does to many. In fact Rob often quotes warm as having less distortion, but then Rob likes Nighthawks, a very warm phone to my ears :) Sorry Rob!

The only Hugo1 pairing I've not been 100% happy with is HD800s. But recently a chance hearing of MrSpeaker Ether's with Hugo will result in my HD800s being put for sale, as although the Hugo1/HD800s are great with some types of music, the Ethers are great with all, and I believe have a terrific synergy with Hugo. Do listen to Ethers with your TT if you get the chance, both open and closed variants.

The biggest immediate improvement to my Hugo I have heard was the Hugo TT. It retained everything I like about Hugo but added a solidity to the sound, in particular to the bass. In hifi terms, it was like listening to a Naim system for the first time after being used to Arcam, Linn and other good makes. A vice-like grip and better PRAT.

So I was expecting similar improvements with Hugo2. Immediately less so, but then it was at a show with my Shure 846s and Huffman headphones rather than connected to a very good home hifi. Like Dave, there were instant improvements in detail, but in a subtle way. I was not sure whether to pre-order and the rest of my time was taken listening to other gear and buying the demo Ether C's from the show.

But overnight I kept thinking about Hugo2 and realised many of the great products I have bought were slow burners, not always night and day instant glorification. I suspect that the Hugo 2s extra detail and purity to sound may just make it a better long term DAC than the TT which I know I love, but again, out of my price range.

Long and short, I pre-ordered Hugo 2 the following day :)

And that Andrew is a perfect example of preference vs performance. If you preferred the tonality of the Hugo1, and HugoTT over the DAVE I'd say consider yourself lucky!! Personally, I'm a bit allergic to brighter gear which is evidenced in my love of the Mojo and DAVE. Also, for example, I prefer the ETHER C Flow to the original while I know you love the original ETHER C.

Makes this hobby fun, if not challenging to define 'better'. :)
 
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May 22, 2017 at 5:55 AM Post #3,582 of 22,475
@Liat just for clarification @AndrewH13 is referring to the original HD800 in his post, not the HD800S.

Quite right. It's not the best product naming for clarity is it?

When somebody says 'I have a pair of HD800s' as against a new 'HD800S' :)
 
May 22, 2017 at 6:03 AM Post #3,583 of 22,475
And that Andrew is a perfect example of preference vs performance. If you preferred the tonality of the Hugo1, and HugoTT over the DAVE I'd say consider yourself lucky!! Personally, I'm a bit allergic to brighter gear which is evidenced in my love of the Mojo and DAVE. Also, for example, I prefer the ETHER C Flow to the original while I know you love the original ETHER C.

Makes this hobby fun, if not challenging to define 'better'. :relaxed:

Agreed!! Shame all music enthusiasts don't have more tolerance to this hobby whether it be music or gear, it IS very personal (even more so for religion!)

Ironically, when CD came out and I bought my first 'perfect' player, I found it so harsh that I swopped my speakers out 3 times to be able to cope with this new bright sound. Only Celestion SL6's could give me good enough sound, and still tame the nasty peaky top end.

Maybe I've lost a few of the top frequencies with aging LOL. But I can still hear the slightest hiss (which I don't mind, having lived with records for decades) and hear the birds singing outside at 4.30 in the morning when my wife insists they are not!
 
May 22, 2017 at 6:11 AM Post #3,584 of 22,475
...and hear the birds singing outside at 4.30 in the morning when my wife insists they are not!

Man, I hate those birds very early in the morning, only because they can wake me too early...

giphy.gif
 
May 22, 2017 at 7:00 AM Post #3,585 of 22,475
I wish one of those special forces carrier pigeon birds in the picture above would drop a hugo 2 on to my desk so i could get on with the mission at hand which is enjoying my eclectic variety of refined tunes. i have nearly £2K tied up in this venture having sold my other gear including a paid deposit. i'm not one of those fat cat types you see. just an average joe who once excelled with a fiddle.:dove::dove::dove::dove: fly free.. free birdie.:violin:
 
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