[cjones]

Hi all, new guy here.
 
I'm wondering if there are any PK3 owners that could confirm something for me.  I've been using mine for a couple of months, and am disappointed with their ability to cope with any amount of bass.  They rattle/buzz at certain frequencies, even at very modest levels with flat eq, although not as badly now as they used to.
 
I came across this review today - http://headphonedeals.org/q-review/yuin-pk3-quick-review/ - which includes an audio example ( http://www.headphonedeals.org/Audiotest/909-Kick.wav ) which apparently the PK3s should be able to handle.  On my PC speakers (Creative Gigaworks S700) the kick sounds smooth, but on my PK3s it's weak and has a buzzy distortion to it.  My experience concerning the bass is also contrary to that described throughout the review.
 
I have a replacement pair on the way, but if this is considered a normal artifact inherent with these 'phones then I might have to sell the new ones when they arrive and find something else that's more capable.
 
Thanks for any help!
 
(c:

 

[jleewach]

being non-isolating earbuds, they're not going to thump visceral bass, but they shouldnt rattle unless you're throwing insane amounts of over-exaggerated bass at them. I use mine daily & they dont rattle at all (I dont really listen to bass-heavy music though). 

 

[CEE TEE]

Does not sound normal...I've been checking in and auditing the PK3 since I sold them to a friend at work (bought both PK1 and PK3 to compare).  Used new Massive Atttack Remixes to A/B them.  No buzz.  But the bass on PK3 definitely got far better with burn-in to my ears.  
 
If you see my sig, I just bought a pair of PK2 that were new but in a damaged box for $45 from HeadRoom.  That is my backup pair for the possibility of something happening to my PK1's and so I won't cry if something does happen to PK1.  
 
Try the new pair and let 'em burn in.  Post findings. 
 

 

[cjones]

Thanks for the replies - I don't suppose anyone's tried that audio file?  My other two pairs of (old/cheap/faulty) Sony earbuds also exhibit the same distorted kick sound when playing that clip, so I'm not sure if that's just par for the course with these cheaper buds or whether the PK3s are supposed to be made of sterner stuff.  If someone can confirm then I'll be able to decide whether or not to leave the replacements unopened (ie easier to sell) when they arrive...

 

[CEE TEE]

I'll try it out tomorrow at work with PK3 and let you know.

 

[Scott549]

Not normal, if properly driven.  If it's in both sides, it's probably an issue with your source, or you're overdriving them.  If it's one side only, it could be a defect.

 

[cjones]

At first just the left channel would buzz/rattle occasionally, then it changed to the right, then back again.  This alternated for a month or so until they eventually settled down a bit.  When I play the audio clip above though, it's equally present in both channels and sounds more like overdrive distortion, even at very low volume levels and flat eq.  It's as though they're trying to deal with frequencies that are beyond their capacity...
 
I think there might be two different things going on here, as some tracks containing low frequency material can still bring back the single-channel rattle (today it's the right channel), which diminishes at lower listening levels.  For now though I'd be interested to know whether anyone else gets a distorted kick in that audio example.
 
I'm testing with various styles of music on both a Sansa Clip+ and a PC with M-Audio soundcard by the way.
Quote:

I'll try it out tomorrow at work with PK3 and let you know.

That'd be great, thanks!

 

[CEE TEE]

No buzz on that drum test sample.  And the office just got three more pairs of PK3 in a group order here in the office if that is any indication...you must have an issue. 

 

[cjones]

Thanks for testing CEE TEE.  I unpacked the new ones that came yesterday and they sound...
 
...virtually identical.
 
They don't exhibit the occasional single-channel buzz that the other ones did, but that drum sample has the same overdriven distortion to it, which has now got me wondering whether it's actually present on the original recording and my PC sound system is somehow smoothing it out (although I'd be very surprised).  Unfortunately I don't have anything else to test with though.
 
Either way, I think I need something that's more satisfying in the deeper bass department, like my 12 year old Sony buds were before I mangled them the other day.  Any suggestions?
 
Incidentally, I thought it was worth noting that even though my PK3s have been "burning in" for a couple of months of almost daily use, they still sound practically the same as the brand new ones.  I *think* there's a difference, but to my ears it's so subtle as to be quite neglegable.

 

[CEE TEE]

The office just got new three pair of PK3 in but the ones I bought when I also bought PK1 are burned in and used at the office.  Tomorrow I will A/B both personally for you but I don't have a USB DAC right now as I avoid the PC and all of my Apple stuff sounds good (so I returned Amp/DAC).
 
Since there was no "buzz" I will try to look past the hiss on the PC soundcard with burned in and non-burned in PK3 side by side to listen specifically for "distortion."  
 
We just happen to have too many PK's around now!  
 
Otherwise, I'd check out Sennheiser's new line...maybe you can see if the MX-880 or MX-580 is as great as some say.  If I wasn't already happy with PK line and concentrating on getting iems, I would be really tempted to try MX-980...love the earbud comfort.  
 
MX-580 seems to be a good foil for PK3 and around the pricepoint.  
 
Will report again tomorrow for you.

 

[CEE TEE]

If you aren't enjoying them as much as you think you should be, though...will you really be happy with them?
 
Maybe a newer line might be better?  The PK have been around a while.  I just find them fun. I'm new and maybe easily pleased.  Trust your ears.  If they don't do it for you, they don't.  I'm using PK1 daily and they can handle things without problem.  So far, my friend has no had any problem with the PK3.  Maybe he is listening to Enya though! 

 
So try the new Senns in the MX-?80 range at your price-point and then let us know what you find out...
 

 

[cjones]

Thanks for your trouble, yeah it would be good to know for sure whether that drum sound comes out smooth on any earbuds, PK3 or otherwise.  Headphones for that matter.  It's a totally different timbre coming through my earbuds compared to speakers.  I just tried a different pair of speakers, and there's no sign of distortion on them either.  It's smooth and sine-wavey on speakers, but has a distorted saw-wavey attack on earphones.
 
I should say I'd be quite happy with the PK3s if it wasn't for the bass.  I'm just so accustomed to my old Sonys which were fuller and deeper I guess.  I have actually been considering the Sennheisers you mentioned, although I tried some MX-something-or-others several years ago that were severely lacking in bass, and I do have reservations about that volume control...  not to mention all these non-returnable earphones I've been accumulating!  I'll definitely give it some more consideration though.
 
By the way I've been thinking about some separate headphones for home use only and have been looking at Alessandro MS-1s, which I noticed you have in your sig.  How do you find they compare to the PK series (bass-wise in particular)?  I'll be using them a lot for music production as well as general listening.
 
Thanks for your help!

 

[CEE TEE]

Okay. I listened to that sample with brand new PK3, burned in PK3, AND my new Sennheiser IE8 iems.
 
That sample does have a farty distortion to it!  Sounded distorted on all three pairs of phones.  And there is no way the IE8 would have any problem with something like that.  So, it must be something your computer speakers are doing to smooth the kick.  The kick ain't smooth.
 
As for Alessandro MS-1i's, I really dig them and they can extend down low but are known for forward mids and this doesn't really sound like what you are looking for.
 
If you want a phone that has bass the way you describe it, I would read a bunch more on head-fi and ask some more experienced peeps.
 
I have found that the MS-1i's extend deeper than PK line, are clearer and not as kind of muddy-full as the PK series.  But they aren't bass oriented.  
 
Also, I enjoy the PK sound obviously, but I wouldn't call it clear or technical.
 
Clarity is what I am wanting more of from my iems...  But then I went and bought the IE8 because I was afraid to sacrifice bass.  I think they are GREAT with some genres and are a bit muddy or veiled in others.  Just like many have said!
 
But I just got them and am still trying to get the most out of them.  Bought them because of the price and bass/soundstage reputation.  May end up wanting Monster Turbine Pro Coppers, though.  (Don't want to spend SM3 money).
 
Good luck with finding a reasonable earbud with the sound sig that you are looking for.
 
Just listened to DJQBert with burned in PK3.  They don't really have a problem handling bass, but it can get a bit crunchy on some of the new Massive Attack remixes which have very fast deep bass that is pretty demanding.  For $30-40, I think they are fine.  Just not the fastest phone.  And maybe more mid-oriented than you are looking for.
 
For Music Production, I would think that you would want more neutral/balanced phones and then test your stuff on consumer speakers and warmer things. 
 
 

 

[cjones]

Interesting!
 
I must admit, it does seem as though the distortion is part of the sample, but it's just bizarre that I can't hear it through speakers.  Looking at the waveform it's pretty close to a clean sine wave, but I don't know if that's a very reliable test.  So either it IS just the recording, or there are certain sounds that little earphone speakers simply cannot reproduce.  I'll have to find some more speakers/headphones to test with - I'm determined to get to the bottom of this!

 
I listened to some full-size headphones recently (Sennheisers and Audio-Technicas) and to my ears the bass was overwhelming and they all lacked clarity (again, probably because I'm so attuned to earphones).  Most of them did have the bass extension I was looking for though, so if that's there in the MS-1i's then I wouldn't rule them out necessarily. IEMs aren't my thing unfortunately, due to the sound isolation properties.
 
Anyway, the hunt continues.  Thanks again for all your help, much appreciated!

 

[CEE TEE]

Okay...you are right.  I stand corrected.  I came home, and ran the same sample through my computer speakers and there was no distortion.
 
So it piqued my interest and I broke out the Alessandro MS-1i's.  NO DISTORTION compared to what earphones did.  That includes Sennheiser IE8!
 
WAIT A MINUTE.  I have found that my Apple stuff BLOWS standard PC stuff away...and I just checked my IE8's out on the headphone out of my VERY OLD Apple G5 desktop.
 
Sounded GREAT.  No distortion.  It is our crappy PC soundcards.  You may need a DAC.
 
We figured it out.  I finally contributed something back to Head-Fi!
 
Try listening to that sample from someone's Apple Laptop Headphone Out.  Okay, now I gotta go check the PK1 from the Apple out...oh that's out in the car.  Maybe tomorrow night.
 
Let me know what you find out trying a BETTER sound card and system.