[Bones13]

I am not sure I can answer your question, as I don't use my W4S DAC2 for headphones out of the XLR outputs, but I did choose it for my speaker system. (I am currently constructing a Bottlehead Crack for my 650s in this system)  My previous Lavry DA10 was my previous DAC.  I have owned the Headroom Desktop DAC/AMP with the basic modules, Firestone Spitfire with PSU, and the DA10.  All were good DACs, and well respected on this board over the years.  My current headphone rig DAC is the PS Audio DLIII with lvl 4 mods.  I love the sound signature that Mr. Cullen imparts in his DACs.  When choosing a new DAC for the speaker system, going with the new async 24/192 USB implementation with the DAC2 was a no-brainer to me.  Now that my system has broken in, I could not be happier.  I am a Senn-o-phile in my flavor choices, favoring a slightly laid back sound for the jazz and vocals I prefer.  I will state though even with my laid back speaker system (tubed amps, and FR speakers), there is terrific air, and definition to be heard with the better recordings. (vinyl and hi-rez computer audio).
 
For the price, I do think this DAC is the giant-killer of the 6Moons review.  Continually, it is slightly bettered by DACs in the $5K range in their reviews.  $5K is out of my range for a DAC.  Now, you will have to take your own musical tastes into account.  Patriot/chauvanist that I am, I will also choose to buy from companies here at home.
 
BTW - my PS Audio DLIII with the Halide Bridge is awesome too.

 

[vrln]

Hm... Talk you out of getting one... That´s hard, it looks to be fantastic gear. If I lived in the US I probably would have bought a W4S DAC-1 before I got on the Audio-gd train. But since you asked:
 
(1) The custom driver USB solution requires software maintenance, so it may not last for future operating systems.
(2) The drivers can be unstable (see 6Moons review)
(3) It isn´t the only good Sabre32 product on the market anymore for solid state fans (not counting the EE because it´s tube)
 
So yeah, I think I did a pretty bad job

 

[torture87]

Hi dj nellie,
 
I'm in a similar situation as you! I'm trying to find any comparisons made between the W4S Dac 1 or 2 and the Neko Audio D100. I really wish I could recommend the Neko ($1295) to you but I don't recall it offering any USB inputs.
 
I auditioned the Neko in my speaker system and it was a great, smooth and warm DAC. I'm planning on getting their higher output version soon but all the talk of the W4S has me interested. The Neko uses one of Burr Brown's best (1794) but I've never heard a 32-bit DAC before. Can it really be THAT much better?

 

[WalkmanMan]

Calto confirmed that the chip does upsample all incoming signals to 32 bit, but the frequency is not fixed. It can vary from 32 KHz, 44.1 KHz, 48 KHz, or 192 KHz. According to him, “…each sample in time will have resolution of a minimum of 32 bit number.” In other words, feed it whatever frequency signal you like, it’ll come out 32 bit. I can hardly overstate the importance of this development. This is a technology which, applied by skilled designers, will decimate current standards of good digital sound, including 24 bit/192 KHz processing.  

 

[dj nellie]

Please pardon my ignorance, but who is Calto?  And which chip are you referring to?
 
Now I'm starting to lean back towards the DA-11, because it has far more impressions from headphone users who listen unamped out of the outputs, and its USB output may be better than I thought.  The 6moons review really dogged the DA-11's USB output, but that was in a speaker setup and possibly with a long cable.
 
Anyone else want to offer impressions of the DAC-2's headphone amp?  Does it even have an amp, or how else is it possible to plug headphones directly into the XLRs?
 
Other things I'm thinking about:  The DAC-2's 192khz sampling may not be very important, if Dan Lavry's arguments are correct.  On the other hand, W4S offers a 3 year warranty, while the DA-11 only has a 1-year.  And I still don't know what to think about the adaptive vs. asynchronous comparison, at least with respect to these 2 DACs.
 
Feel free to chime in with any more info., comparisons, impressions, rebuttals....

 

[Parafeed]

Quote:

Anyone else want to offer impressions of the DAC-2's headphone amp?  Does it even have an amp, or how else is it possible to plug headphones directly into the XLRs?

My opinion.... It either has a dedicated headphone amp and socket or it doesn't. The W4S DAC does not. (Using an adapter cable you can plug just about anything into anything. That doesn't make it a sensible thing to do.) I think you said the headphones you intended to use were only 25R. YMMV, but plugging them into something with a stated output impedance of 100R (which could be 100R per phase balanced. ie. 200R - it's not explicitly stated in the W4S specs) is not something I would be doing, but as I said, YMMV.

 

[yossi126]

Quote:

Hi dj nellie,
 
I'm in a similar situation as you! I'm trying to find any comparisons made between the W4S Dac 1 or 2 and the Neko Audio D100. I really wish I could recommend the Neko ($1295) to you but I don't recall it offering any USB inputs.
 
I auditioned the Neko in my speaker system and it was a great, smooth and warm DAC. I'm planning on getting their higher output version soon but all the talk of the W4S has me interested. The Neko uses one of Burr Brown's best (1794) but I've never heard a 32-bit DAC before. Can it really be THAT much better?

There's a few words about these here:
http://www.headphonista.com/eastern-electric-tube-dac/

 

[K3cT]

When I had the DA-11, I couldn't differentiate the sounds in between the various input options. 
 
For me the more important question is whether you can live with its rather dry and analytical sound signature or not. I couldn't in the end. 

 

[hubsand]

I am quite a lot biased towards the DAC2, but here goes:
 
1. It doesn't have a headphone stage
2. It's too revealing of defects in recordings
3. It's too truthful about the shortcomings of other components in the system
4. It looks a bit like a shoebox
5. If you order it in silver, it's the wrong colour
6. It's too cheap
7. The display is blue
8. The number of digital inputs is confusing
9. It's too heavy
10. The lid is held on by too many screws
11. It doesn't have a 20-year warranty like the Metric Halo
12. In five years there will be something better

 

[dj nellie]

Thanks for your response, hubsand.  What is your amp/headphone setup with the DAC2?  Have you tried to the DAC2 straight out of the XLR outputs with balanced headphones?  How would you characterize the sound presentation of the DAC2?
 
I'm starting to see quite a few posts that describe the DA-11 as dry, overly neutral, and even boring.  Is this more a problem if you have headphones that also have a mostly neutral sound signature?  My D2000s lean more towards the colored side, so maybe this would help offset the DA-11's analytical nature.  In general, I'm not the biggest fan of excessive neutrality.
 
Ideally, I'd like an all-in-one solution DAC and amp (or at least a decent headphone pre-amp).  Has anyone heard the Headroom Desktop Balanced Amp with DAC, the one that was discontinued a few years ago? 

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

I'll chime in with some excerpts from my upcoming Wyred 4 Sound DAC-1 review. Please note that my DAC-1 is equivalent to the DAC-2 sans some of the inputs.
 

---

 
"This is a review for the recently released Wyred 4 Sound DAC-1. However, this was a special order unit, the original buyer requested this modified DAC-1 with the 24-bit 192KHz USB option, but due to finances had to back out, a lucky break for me. Later I returned the unit to EJ for upgrades to the power supply bringing the unit to parity with the DAC-2. The DAC-1 I have shares the DAC-2’s power supply (low ESR “super-caps"), bridge rectifier (an ultra fast Schottky type), and 24-bit 192KHz USB input, while retaining the primary inputs (USB, Toslink/COAX) of the DAC-1."
 
"I believe that what separates the W4S DAC-1 that I have from other DAC’s that I have auditioned has to do with its ability to reconstruct the texture of whatever it reproduces, be they cymbals, violins, flutes, clarinets, basses, vocals, guitars, everything. If you wanted to, you could deconstruct the instrumental characteristics necessary for a CSI episode on audio criminology, if there were such a thing. What is so unique, seemingly, about my experience with the DAC-1 is that this level of resolution/texture is naturally rendered, so that it lets you enjoy the music more! Rather than focusing on the texture, or the resolution, you are drawn into the emotional flexing that the musicians intended, the message in the music."
 
"Additionally, vocal reproduction, male or female, solo or choral are naturally reproduced sans sizzle. Sibilance, on the other hand, occurs naturally during singing, but reproducing/recreating it naturally is apparently not so easy a task. There are lots of examples of bad recordings, where sibilance is unbearable. Assuming a decent recording, with the DAC-1 when sibilance is reproduced, you can clearly hear the texture and inner working of its creation, development and resolve. This is, for me, where the texture of the musical recreation translates into musical enjoyment. It’s the natural creation/recreation of what we hear at a live performance, but take for granted due to “being in the moment.” The ability to clearly reproduce the inner texture of the voice, dynamics, phrasing and intonation, the rising and falling of the singing voice in the performance makes clear the emotional intentions of the musical score." 
 
"The DAC-1 has excellent distribution of energy throughout its frequency response. Everything feels properly distributed, only the the performance itself providing emphasis as dictated by the composition, conductor and musicians."
 
"The output of the DAC-1 that I have provides solid performance in its bass reproduction. It’s not overemphasized, bloated, or loose. Rather its solid and taught with the proper sense of support. No loss of steam with the DAC-1!"
 

---

 
Hopefully, some of these observations/perceptions will provide you with an idea of what I think of this (modified) Wyred 4 Sound DAC-1.
 
(See my profile for associated equipment that I use in my music system.) 
 
More to come...  

 

[dj nellie]

Thanks for the sneak peek at your review.  I looked at your gear list, but can you specify what headphones and amps you used with the DAC-1, and which do you think sound best with it?  Have you tried any of your headphones (including your IEMs) straight out of the DAC-1, either through the XLRs or by using adapters?
 
And you mentioned other DACs  that you've auditioned, can you name those and go into any more detail about the differences?

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

Obviously, the sound signature that I am obtaining is the result of the entire chain, not directly out of the DAC. I would NOT recommend running headphones straight out of the DAC's outputs as that was not how it was designed to be used. Although, it's an interesting idea and certainly the W4S DAC has a robust analogue section. You should contact Wyred 4 Sound for advice about what you are suggesting. 
 
I use the Westone ES3X IEM with the Sonett. 
 
My primary experience with other digital front ends is with top tier Meridian in a $100K plus reference system. I would say that the DAC-1 holds it's own in most relevant categories. Differences in DACs at this price point are nuanced, but relevant depending on your personal priorities and perceptions about sound reproduction. The Six Moons review of the DAC mirrors my own experience, and it was compared with the weiss at $3K (for the current DAC2 or the older at $5K). 
 
Some of the other DAC's I was considering included:

• naim
• Neko
• weiss
• Wavelength Consecant 

 

[gzone3lement]

Quote:

I am not sure I can answer your question, as I don't use my W4S DAC2 for headphones out of the XLR outputs, but I did choose it for my speaker system. (I am currently constructing a Bottlehead Crack for my 650s in this system)  My previous Lavry DA10 was my previous DAC.  I have owned the Headroom Desktop DAC/AMP with the basic modules, Firestone Spitfire with PSU, and the DA10.  All were good DACs, and well respected on this board over the years.  My current headphone rig DAC is the PS Audio DLIII with lvl 4 mods.  I love the sound signature that Mr. Cullen imparts in his DACs.  When choosing a new DAC for the speaker system, going with the new async 24/192 USB implementation with the DAC2 was a no-brainer to me.  Now that my system has broken in, I could not be happier.  I am a Senn-o-phile in my flavor choices, favoring a slightly laid back sound for the jazz and vocals I prefer.  I will state though even with my laid back speaker system (tubed amps, and FR speakers), there is terrific air, and definition to be heard with the better recordings. (vinyl and hi-rez computer audio).
 
For the price, I do think this DAC is the giant-killer of the 6Moons review.  Continually, it is slightly bettered by DACs in the $5K range in their reviews.  $5K is out of my range for a DAC.  Now, you will have to take your own musical tastes into account.  Patriot/chauvanist that I am, I will also choose to buy from companies here at home.
 
BTW - my PS Audio DLIII with the Halide Bridge is awesome too.

Interesting, as a PS Audio DLIII owner, I also expect level IV mod and halide bridge to be awesome. When the W4S Dac-2 rolled in this year, I got lost in thoughts after reading 6Moons review. Both DAC's are made in Paso Robles, so it is difficult to decide if I'd like to sell my DLIII in the future and purchase DAC-2, or continue to upgrade to mod IV and purchase halide design. It would be great if I can have both, but my piggy bank says no.

 

[arnesto]

Have you considered getting the DAC1, it's $500 dollars cheaper and probably sounds the same as the DAC2.
 
In the 6moons review, the DAC2 is better if you have blu-ray audio or downloaded hi-res audio.
 
I only have standard MP3s and CDs, so I can't really use the more advanced processing on the DAC2.
 
You would think audio would move to the more advance, longer bit direction, but look as what happened to DVD-A and SACD.
 
I haven't listened to either, I just saying from reading the 6moons review.