[t3haxle]

If you want to match 3200 dollars you might as well go all the way and put in something unnecessarily  powerful like trifire 5970's with a 9800gtx for PhysX. =P

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

If you want to match 3200 dollars you might as well go all the way and put in something unnecessarily  powerful like trifire 5970's with a 9800gtx for PhysX. =P

The point was that it bests the specifications, works out of the box on OSX (No kext hacks needed) and costs much much less.  Not to make an equiv at that price, which would need kext hacking.  (OSX doesn't support 5970s.)

 

[7H3L457H0P3]

 

Quote:

Apple Mac Pro: 2.66 Xeon processor, 6GB of RAM, GT 120, DVD burner, 1TB 7200RPM drive, ugly server case.

 

$3200 CAD

 

Mac Pro Clone:  2.66 Xeon processor, 6GB of RAM, GT 285, Lightscribe DVD burner, 1TB WD Black HDD, Sleek case + 650W power supply.  Assembly included.  Fully OSX compatible, out of the box.

 

$1700 CAD + $35 for OSX.

 

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=51357

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=38342

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=34802&promoid=1016

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=31000&promoid=1016

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=36263&promoid=1016

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=39443

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=42349&promoid=1016

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=51277

+ Assembly ($50)

 

BTW, that took me two hours of research.

 
What it boils down too for me between PC and Mac is, what does a Mac offer me that I can't get on a PC? Hybrys has clearly shown you guys are getting ripped off in the hardware and price department for the exact same components. In fact his build included a gtx 285 which is Mac supported and will rip the gt 120 to shreads; and since you can get OS X with no drivers issues on the exact same hardware with no hassle to yourself for cheaper the only reason I can see you not getting one is hardware support. If it comes down to it use the $1500 you just saved to hire someone and online tech support help is everywhere.
 
On another note; I'm still looking into potential mods for August, but in the mean time I've begun work on a shorter term, lower-budget headphone mod. If anyone is interested or wants to help out I would appreciate it (forum link: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/498590/pioneer-hdj-1000-custom-housing#post_6729523). Feel free to inquire about my PC Mod in that forum too. I will be working on both closely, could even do a common theme between the two. Mac, PC, Linux users are all welcome
 
By the way Hybrys where do you stand as of right now? You seem to be more knowledgeable than most people here regardless of what they support. Something tells me you know exactly what you want. Either way I hope you find exactly what you are looking for. Best of luck,
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3

 

[Sweetmate]

Quote:

Why didn't you make a Hackintosh desktop?  Better than the Mac Pro, cheaper, and nicer looking. (I prefer a sleek black look to the 'HI GUYS I'M A SERVER' look of the Mac Pro.)

 
Because I don't want to hack kernel extensions and mess about with drivers, and because I bought this Mac Pro from the company I worked for when I left them, it cost me half the retail price, and it works superbly and it will have high resale value (not that I have any urge to sell it even though its nearly 2 and a half years old, I have never felt that way about any PC I have ever built). No one who uses a computer for professional purposes would ever even think about using a hackintosh. Not because they don't know how to build them, but because they would be an utter catastrophe in a work environment. And wouldn't save you any money at all, they would probably cost you money due to loss of earnings when they fail. And many people who understand this concept apply elements of it to their choice of home (non work) computers too. These are the ideas I don't seem to be relaying to you successfully, or you are choosing to ignore as valid thinking for some reason.
 
I have done some hacking if that will make you feel any better. I bought a PC ATI 4870 1GB for £100 (about 150CAD)  and flashed it with a mac bios instead of buying an Apple ATI 4870 512GB which was about £300. But I didn't opt for a 4890 as that would need hacked kexts again, and I cant be bothered with it. When Apple release a software update I want to just be able to hit update and not have to wait around and look for updated hacks. And I don't ever want to tell a client I cant do some work for them today because I have to spend the day installing updated kexts and rebooting repeatedly instead!!!
 
As for your point about the Mac Pro's case, your opinion on the look of the case is subjective, but you cannot deny its a well made case with excellent thermal properties and fan management. Both my harpertown CPUs are at 34C, the ambient temperature here is 23C, and the fans are all at minimum so it is completely inaudible.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

 
 
What it boils down too for me between PC and Mac is, what does a Mac offer me that I can't get on a PC? Hybrys has clearly shown you guys are getting ripped off in the hardware and price department for the exact same components. In fact his build included a gtx 285 which is Mac supported and will rip the gt 120 to shreads; and since you can get OS X with no drivers issues on the exact same hardware with no hassle to yourself for cheaper the only reason I can see you not getting one is hardware support. If it comes down to it use the $1500 you just saved to hire someone and online tech support help is everywhere.
 
On another note; I'm still looking into potential mods for August, but in the mean time I've begun work on a shorter term, lower-budget headphone mod. If anyone is interested or wants to help out I would appreciate it (forum link: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/498590/pioneer-hdj-1000-custom-housing#post_6729523). Feel free to inquire about my PC Mod in that forum too. I will be working on both closely, could even do a common theme between the two. Mac, PC, Linux users are all welcome
 
By the way Hybrys where do you stand as of right now? You seem to be more knowledgeable than most people here regardless of what they support. Something tells me you know exactly what you want. Either way I hope you find exactly what you are looking for. Best of luck,
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3

 
The best part is, most of those products have industry leading part-by-part warranties.  EVGA has a lifetime warranty with Step-Up program, Corsair has AMAZING support for their XMS series RAM, and ASUS has some great support for their mobos.  All being atleast 3 years, and included for free.

I'm going to end up doing a Hackintosh/Win7 dual boot build.  Hopefully waiting on the 480M (which should have OSX support) to get a little cheaper, or an email back from ASUS support to ask if MXM card changing would affect my warranty.
 
If that doesn't happen, I'm looking into the Clevo D900F with 285 or 480.  Little pricier, but, it works with non-mobile processors (standard 1366 socket custom mobo) thus I can run the hexacore.  $2950 with a hexacore and GT 285 vs the $3000 MBP with a dual core, and GT 330M.
 
HA.

 

[Hybrys]

@Sweetmate
 
Did you check out my Mac Pro Clone build?  That will run OUT OF THE BOX.  Retail copy of OSX.  No need for custom kexts of any kind, or any modding.  Instant 4-core, Xeon, all mobo devices, higher grade RAM/graphics, for much less.  Infact, I wouldn't be afraid to rely on it in a studio situation.

 

[Hero Kid]

So far the main arguments you guys have against Macs is you can get the same for cheaper if you use Hackintosh.
What happens if you don't feel comfortable in breaking the terms and conditions (probably a better way to word that it  elludes me at the moment) of the licensing contract?
Like me for instance, if I can appreciate it and afford it I'm not going to say no. There is something morally wrong with using Hackintosh to me, that's why I'm still going to buy a MacBook Pro.

 

[Sweetmate]

No it wont. That motherboard requires the ALC1200 kext. The EVGA 285GTX for mac requires drivers. You cannot install OSX by simply inserting the disc in the drive. You need an existing OS X install on another machine, you need a USB flash drive, you need a specific bios for the board, you need to create a boot loader. Once you are installed, and you want to update to 10.6.4, you have to edit plist files within the updater package and copy them onto your hard drive (using terminal) before you update. It is doable but IT IS NOT STRAIGHT FORWARD.
 
And the best bit is is a few weeks later when that hacked audio kext has a bug in it when accessing CoreAudio in a certain way from a certain program and causes crashing. Then what do you do? You cant go to apple, you cant moan at the software devs. Then a month later 10.6.5 is released, and you have to find that new audio kext again.....

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

So far the main arguments you guys have against Macs is you can get the same for cheaper if you use Hackintosh.
What happens if you don't feel comfortable in breaking the terms and conditions (probably a better way to word that it  elludes me at the moment) of the licensing contract?
Like me for instance, if I can appreciate it and afford it I'm not going to say no. There is something morally wrong with using Hackintosh to me, that's why I'm still going to buy a MacBook Pro.

It's not against the rules to go out, buy a copy of OSX, and install it on a machine other than an Apple.
 
Quote:

No it wont. That motherboard requires the ALC1200 kext. The EVGA 285GTX for mac requires drivers. You cannot install OSX by simply inserting the disc in the drive. You need an existing OS X install on another machine, you need a USB flash drive, you need a specific bios for the board, you need to create a boot loader. Once you are installed, and you want to update to 10.6.4, you have to edit plist files within the updater package and copy them onto your hard drive (using terminal) before you update. It is doable but IT IS NOT STRAIGHT FORWARD.
 
And the best bit is is a few weeks later when that hacked audio kext has a bug in it when accessing CoreAudio in a certain way from a certain program and causes crashing. Then what do you do? You cant go to apple, you cant moan at the software devs. Then a month later 10.6.5 is released, and you have to find that new audio kext again.....

Okay, I'm sorry.  You can't use the onboard audio for that mobo without a 10 second unarchive and restart.  /gasp
 
BUT, you can just insert the retail disk, boot from that, and install like that.  I've done it with my Gateway.  The EVGA should be instantly supported, or have a driver disk, and all other mobo functions work out of the box.  Those updating DSDTs are for i7 processors, not the Xeons that Apple already HAS to support.
 
For the $1500 you save in comparison, you can get yourself a nice external sound card.  Hell, include a Duet in the price tag, and you're still only at ~$2100 vs the $3500.
 
Is $1400+ worth the one restart or not being able to use onboard audio?

 

[Currawong]

Can you run Software Update and do a point update with Mac OS X on that Hackintosh without trashing the system?

 

[12thgear]

Most people would prefer to deal with a major OEM who backs the entire system. Incidentally, Mac Pro pricing fares better there. It's still more expensive, but I configured Xeon systems with comparable features and came within $500. The current Mac Pro is nearing end of life, so here's to hoping they have a revised model around the corner. 
 
Building a system is always cheaper, but there's no such thing as a free lunch. Be ready to support yourself. If you're technically inclined, that's not a huge deal. It can even be fun. If you're not technical, then be ready to hire someone. Actually, one possibility for an adventurous non-technical user would be to work with a reputable local system builder, and have them custom build a hackintosh, with some degree of support contract. Costs could be kept lower still by sticking with an i5 or i7 and LGA 1156 boards. Apple doesn't offer headless i5 or i7s, and that would fill a real niche. 

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

Can you run Software Update and do a point update with Mac OS X on that Hackintosh without trashing the system?

I'm fairly sure you can.  Can't be 100%, since I don't own it, but people seem to have no problems running Software Update from 10.6.3 to 10.6.4.

 
Quote:

Most people would prefer to deal with a major OEM who backs the entire system. Incidentally, Mac Pro pricing fares better there. It's still more expensive, but I configured Xeon systems with comparable features and came within $500. The current Mac Pro is nearing end of life, so here's to hoping they have a revised model around the corner. 
 
Building a system is always cheaper, but there's no such thing as a free lunch. Be ready to support yourself. If you're technically inclined, that's not a huge deal. It can even be fun. If you're not technical, then be ready to hire someone. Actually, one possibility for an adventurous non-technical user would be to work with a reputable local system builder, and have them custom build a hackintosh, with some degree of support contract. Costs could be kept lower still by sticking with an i5 or i7 and LGA 1156 boards. Apple doesn't offer headless i5 or i7s, and that would fill a real niche. 

I'm interested where you're seeing OEM/low level pricing for the Mac Pro.  I know I can get about $400 for an educational bonus, but that barely bridges that gap.
 
Technicians such as myself aren't allowed to sell support for Hackintosh machines, nor can we sell or advertise hardware that can run OSX cheaper.  Apple does have an iron-grip on their software/hardware, to not allow anyone else to produce/sell/compete.
 
That said, you are technically able to run Hackintosh with no legal issues.

 

[Hero Kid]

Stupid forum system, post is as bellow.
 
Also, my mistake with the Mac Pro comment.

 

[cyberspyder]

Quote:

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong but I'm fairly certain Apple's EULA says it's against the rules, or at least against the contract of using OSX. Apple have you agree to a contract before running the software for the first time. That contact states that it can only be installed on Mac computers. To do anything else is a breach of contract, which goes against my morals.
 
 
From my knowledge Apple only updated the Macbook Pro exactly 69 days ago, which in Apple terms is quite recently. According to MacRumors the average product cycle of the Macbook Pro is 208 days. I personally wouldn't consider this just around the corner.
 

He said Mac Pro, not Macbook Pro.

 

[12thgear]

 
Quote:

I'm interested where you're seeing OEM/low level pricing for the Mac Pro.  I know I can get about $400 for an educational bonus, but that barely bridges that gap.
 
Technicians such as myself aren't allowed to sell support for Hackintosh machines, nor can we sell or advertise hardware that can run OSX cheaper.  Apple does have an iron-grip on their software/hardware, to not allow anyone else to produce/sell/compete.
 
That said, you are technically able to run Hackintosh with no legal issues.

I probably worded that poorly. I meant that a Mac Pro compares more favorably to a name brand equivalent spec system like a Dell, HP, etc. DIY builds are still obviously cheaper than all of the above.
 
It's a shame a builder can't slip under the radar. It's not a service my company offers either, so I haven't even researched the legal ramifications.