[WindowsX]

always try to raise disagreement without effort to make tangible proof to disagree. Some people can make excuse all days long without giving anything a try so they can say "I tried it and it doesn't work the way you described.". I believe true objectivists are people who are willing to meet face to face and do tests together to findout who is right rather than googling and throwing theories on keyboard in comfort zone without facing the reality, especially to digital audio when things aren't always 0 and 1 but some people keep believing strongly in this false fact.
 
I also read other posts in forums. The more I read, the more I realized being an online objectivist is a sham. I once met some of online objectivist in real life. They're deliberating to avoid an actual confrontation and actual tests. It's like they're afraid of losing face to what they claim online. Most of the time they are making a stern face when things didn't go their way. Of course there are times when I wasn't right but I always put effort to try and see in their shoes, no matter how ridiculous it may sound.
 
Regards,
Keetakawee

 

[Ruben123]

Not all objectivists are true objectivists. You could believe an Objectivist's theory also without testing it yourself. if everybody has to check tests done by others, it would be a waste of time. Besides, you better could post this in a subjectivists camp about them, I mean, only one person has to say "this DAC has much tighter bass and more clarity"and everybody follows without testing too. Quite the same for the "fake" objectivists as myself, were it not that they don't use measurements and actual theory, only their fantasy mind. Thatisdifference.

 

[WindowsX]

Not all objectivists are true objectivists.

 
Agreed.
 

You could believe an Objectivist's theory also without testing it yourself. if everybody has to check tests done by others, it would be a waste of time.

 

It'd be a waste of time if that person do the same test again and again. Saying it'd be a waste of time to repeat the test done by other people is just an excuse for being lazy. I'm surprised many objectivists think this is considered normal. I didn't meant to offense you in this topic btw.
 

Besides, you better could post this in a subjectivists camp about them, I mean, only one person has to say "this DAC has much tighter bass and more clarity"and everybody follows without testing too.

 

I agreed that they both are bad for believing in something without any actual experience. "Hearing is believing." is subjectivist's strong point and "Proof with test result" is objectivist's strong point too. Objectivist believing in some ideas without actual test experience is as bad as subjectivist believing in something without actual listening experience.
 

Quite the same for the "fake" objectivists as myself, were it not that they don't use measurements and actual theory, only their fantasy mind. Thatisdifference.

 

With respect, I find both fakes are fond of fantasies. Have you heard the term sci-fiction? They wrap up their fantasies with some known theories. 'Bits are bits' is one of the best selling in this category. If all they do is reading and believing, that makes no difference. I have nothing against both objectivist and subjectivist. As I posted before, I could be wrong sometimes and I gave all the credit those who actually put effort to correct me.
 
Regards,
Keetakawee

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Why?

Because it takes considerable investment of time and/or money to test out other people's claims, and one has to weigh this investment against how badly one wants to convince you that your methodology is screwed up, and how likely said investment is to pay off in this respect.

The probable returns are slim on both counts. It's your time to waste, and even if one were to replicate your setup and report no audible differences, he could simply be accused of having tin ears.

The thing is, subjective experience that flies in the face of established engineering proof that some tweak shouldn't produce an audible difference, is not proof that said established engineering should be overturned. Rather, it is proof that one's subjective experiences are fickle and prone to confounding factors--because THAT's also been thoroughly proved by psychology research.

 

[WindowsX]

Why?

Because it takes considerable investment of time and/or money to test out other people's claims, and one has to weigh this investment against how badly one wants to convince you that your methodology is screwed up, and how likely said investment is to pay off in this respect.

The probable returns are slim on both counts. It's your time to waste, and even if one were to replicate your setup and report no audible differences, he could simply be accused of having tin ears.

The thing is, subjective experience that flies in the face of established engineering proof that some tweak shouldn't produce an audible difference, is not proof that said established engineering should be overturned. Rather, it is proof that one's subjective experiences are fickle and prone to confounding factors--because THAT's also been thoroughly proved by psychology research.

 
From my cases, it doesn't take much time and effort so I can't relate to how it'll trouble them. As you can see from my past debates, testing Fidelizer is free and took only one minute to run without side effects after reboot. Ultracopier software is free and they can try copying files with different software and configuration to test themselves. Yet they keep posting rude things without putting any effort to try.
 
Sorry but I can't agree with you in any terms except they're afraid of being called tin ears so they took shelter behind screen typing keyboard with their fantasies. Most of the time they spent days arguing with me telling me how stupid it sounds but can't spend one minute trying it.
 
I met one of those guys face to face and their reason for not trying is 'It sounds too pointless for them to try'. Most of them are like that and when I showed them the result, they just kept silence about being on the wrong side and curse me behind my back. His friend told me that's why I stopped doing blind test. It only make needless enemies.
 
Regards,
Keetakawee

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Do either program make permanent system setting changes? Link to download and install?

 

[WindowsX]

Do either program make permanent system setting changes? Link to download and install?

 
Ummm.....Nope! For Fidelizer, you can try it from here.
 
http://www.fidelizer-audio.com
 
After Fidelize, effects will last until system restart so no risk involved. For Ultracopier, you can try it from here.
 
http://ultracopier.first-world.info
 
I copied files to micro SD into ultracopier using different settings, threw micro sd card to head-fiers to test, still got 100% difference detection rate so far.
 
Regards,
Keetakawee

 

[castleofargh]

  always try to raise disagreement without effort to make tangible proof to disagree. Some people can make excuse all days long without giving anything a try so they can say "I tried it and it doesn't work the way you described.". I believe true objectivists are people who are willing to meet face to face and do tests together to findout who is right rather than googling and throwing theories on keyboard in comfort zone without facing the reality, especially to digital audio when things aren't always 0 and 1 but some people keep believing strongly in this false fact.
 
I also read other posts in forums. The more I read, the more I realized being an online objectivist is a sham. I once met some of online objectivist in real life. They're deliberating to avoid an actual confrontation and actual tests. It's like they're afraid of losing face to what they claim online. Most of the time they are making a stern face when things didn't go their way. Of course there are times when I wasn't right but I always put effort to try and see in their shoes, no matter how ridiculous it may sound.
 
Regards,
Keetakawee

do you have proof that the guys you talk about were really objectivists?

  (it was just too tempting).
 
 
if somebody is really more concerned about pretending to be right than about what's happening, then how could he be called an objectivist?  to put what people think of you before facts, what could possibly be more of a subjective behavior? it's individuality 101. 
 
 
and about people being skeptical but not making any effort to try and prove something themselves, I'd say burden of proof. who made the claim? being skeptical about a claim with poor or no evidence is not the same as making a claim of the opposite, and doesn't require evidence of anything. people don't need to justify skepticism. if they don't see any merit in a claim or a given experience, it's their choice.
beyond that, people spend the time they have the way they want, and not everybody is a researcher. if you present the proper evidence from a properly documented testing method, then maybe others will be interested in trusting you or repeating the test to confirm or disprove your conclusion.

 

[WindowsX]

Yeah. They're kind of people asking for evidence and proper stuff and won't bother anything else. I already provide tools and methodology for them to test. It only took few minutes to do effortlessly yet they refused to do it. I think you should already see those kind of people a lot in this forum.
 
Regards,
Keetakawee

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

Because there is absolutely no need to waste time and money to prove something that science and engineering has already proved.

If I challenge a statement someone makes and present a set of facts supporting my challenge, then it is their responsibility to counter with facts.

This "you have to try it to understand" stuff is pure garbage. No, I don't have to try it. You need to tell me exactly what substantiates your claim, not with opinion or talking points from some manufacturer's marketing group, but with scientific fact. Period.

 

[WindowsX]

Because there is absolutely no need to waste time and money to prove something that science and engineering has already proved.

If I challenge a statement someone makes and present a set of facts supporting my challenge, then it is their responsibility to counter with facts.

This "you have to try it to understand" stuff is pure garbage. No, I don't have to try it. You need to tell me exactly what substantiates your claim, not with opinion or talking points from some manufacturer's marketing group, but with scientific fact. Period.

 
Some proven facts are not true. Like All accurateRip tracks sound the same with exact data. But file comparison showed otherwise and drive quality still affects SQ. Ripping accuraterip from Plextor Premium 2 is still better than TSSCorp slotin drives. Yeah there's still people who disagreed with me until they heard my Plextor 2 ripped files.
 
Regards,
Keetakawee

 

[GRUMPYOLDGUY]

Some proven facts are not true. Like All accurateRip tracks sound the same with exact data. But file comparison showed otherwise and drive quality still affects SQ. Ripping accuraterip from Plextor Premium 2 is still better than TSSCorp slotin drives. Yeah there's still people who disagreed with me until they heard my Plextor 2 ripped files.

Regards,
Keetakawee

I have no idea what an accuraterip is... But if the data in the files you are playing is the same, then the audio in those files is the same. If you have some playback problems, then that's a different issue.

 

[spook76]

Some proven facts are not true. Like All accurateRip tracks sound the same with exact data. But file comparison showed otherwise and drive quality still affects SQ. Ripping accuraterip from Plextor Premium 2 is still better than TSSCorp slotin drives. Yeah there's still people who disagreed with me until they heard my Plextor 2 ripped files.

Regards,
Keetakawee

If a "proven fact" is not true then by definition it is not a proven fact.

 

[spruce music]

   
Some proven facts are not true. Like All accurateRip tracks sound the same with exact data. But file comparison showed otherwise and drive quality still affects SQ. Ripping accuraterip from Plextor Premium 2 is still better than TSSCorp slotin drives. Yeah there's still people who disagreed with me until they heard my Plextor 2 ripped files.
 
Regards,
Keetakawee

Excuse me?  When did accuraterip exact data present a file comparison showing otherwise?  Are you referring to when you used that virtual cable stuff that actually changed the data?  Or are you referring to listening to a pair of tracks with the same data and subjectively deciding they sound different?  The first is simple.  They are different and not the same.  The latter really isn't fit for sound science.

 

[WindowsX]

I have no idea what an accuraterip is... But if the data in the files you are playing is the same, then the audio in those files is the same. If you have some playback problems, then that's a different issue.

 
I'm surprised at your guts to make such declaration while being ignorant about accuraterip. How about trying EAC software with different ripping configuration and see for yourselves?
 

If a "proven fact" is not true then by definition it is not a proven fact.

 
Some people love to declare 'proven fact' with narrowed cases. At least I didn't see anyone who actually compared accuraterip tracks between Plextor Premium and some common drive and got the same result.
 

 
Excuse me?  When did accuraterip exact data present a file comparison showing otherwise?  Are you referring to when you used that virtual cable stuff that actually changed the data?  Or are you referring to listening to a pair of tracks with the same data and subjectively deciding they sound different?  The first is simple.  They are different and not the same.  The latter really isn't fit for sound science.

 
If I were to send you ripped tracks using different drives and got different sound and MD5 hash, how would you describe it? Poor ripping setup?
 
Regards,
Keetakawee