[Vigrith]

  I haven't heard their amp/dac driving speakers, but I have heard the Phantoms (their integrated amp/dac/speaker) and they sound like ass

 

I know we all have different tastes, but I can't agree that they 'sound like ass'. When correctly placed (like any loudspeaker) they sound very good indeed. I picked up a pair during the 45 day trial and they compared very favourably to my KEF Reference/Bryston setup.

 
I also own a pair of Phantoms and definitely disagree that they sound bad, though if we're saying they sound like ass because their bass is very potent (though not overwhelming unless called for) then I can see where that'd come from. They're wireless and I didn't buy them expecting to sound like £3000, full sized speakers driven by a 10k amp and a 10k DAC - I bought them because for 3k they sounded good with the music I intended to use them with, I liked their functionalities/wireless capability and thought they'd come in handy at the house. They have.
 
My preference errs with headphones, most of the listening time they get is through my wife and when we're listening to music or watching series/movies together; in that sort of setting we're not really listening to complicated classical/orchestral pieces, we listen to plebeian music and the Phantoms excel at those.

 

[Armaegis]

  One person's ass is another person's pleasure.  Or something.

 
Hey now, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas...

 

[Zojokkeli]

   
 
I also own a pair of Phantoms and definitely disagree that they sound bad, though if we're saying they sound like ass because their bass is very potent (though not overwhelming unless called for) then I can see where that'd come from. They're wireless and I didn't buy them expecting to sound like £3000, full sized speakers driven by a 10k amp and a 10k DAC - I bought them because for 3k they sounded good with the music I intended to use them with, I liked their functionalities/wireless capability and thought they'd come in handy at the house. They have.
 
My preference errs with headphones, most of the listening time they get is through my wife and when we're listening to music or watching series/movies together; in that sort of setting we're not really listening to complicated classical/orchestral pieces, we listen to plebeian music and the Phantoms excel at those.

 
I'm definitely picking up Phantoms at some point in the future too. At the moment my Genelecs will do, as I needed to move into a small man-cave after my fiancee moved abroad.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

hey @baldr what do you think of Max Lorenz's studio recording of Tristan with i think Robert Heger from the '40s?

 

[7ryder]

   
 
I also own a pair of Phantoms and definitely disagree that they sound bad, though if we're saying they sound like ass because their bass is very potent (though not overwhelming unless called for) then I can see where that'd come from. They're wireless and I didn't buy them expecting to sound like £3000, full sized speakers driven by a 10k amp and a 10k DAC - I bought them because for 3k they sounded good with the music I intended to use them with, I liked their functionalities/wireless capability and thought they'd come in handy at the house. They have.
 
My preference errs with headphones, most of the listening time they get is through my wife and when we're listening to music or watching series/movies together; in that sort of setting we're not really listening to complicated classical/orchestral pieces, we listen to plebeian music and the Phantoms excel at those.

I agree, that when listening to audio for movies, etc., I'm sure they sound very good. That said, I wouldn't use them for critical listening.
 
Given their price point they are very good, but there are going to be compromises when combining a DAC, amp and speaker into one small enclosure. Better than Bose. Better than Sonos. 

 

[Baldr]

  hey @baldr what do you think of Max Lorenz's studio recording of Tristan with i think Robert Heger from the '40s?

The only Lorenz I have heard (other than broadcast) is an old excerpt LP I have from 20 or so years ago.  Big on tenor, not so much on helden as I recall.
 
 
 
 
Now with re-respect to switching amps............................
Apart from the deep bass, which seems to be OK, I still cannot listen to any I have heard without pain.  The keyword is listen as in audio only media.  When I am in a movie theater or home theater, I am distracted by vision and less discriminating.  It may be possible to argue that the parlor tricks resorted to in film audio are not terribly affected.
 
For any kind of serious listening, I must fall back upon my original assessment.

 

[artur9]

  Now with re-respect to switching amps............................
Apart from the deep bass, which seems to be OK, I still cannot listen to any I have heard without pain.  The keyword is listen as in audio only media.  

 
The thing I dislike about them is all the noise they seem to generate both into their output and back into the mains.  I find it weird that when Stereophile (yeah, I know) measures a switching amp they have to filter the output to remove ultrasonics to get a decent SNR.  Shouldn't that be a red flag?

 

[KoshNaranek]

   
The thing I dislike about them is all the noise they seem to generate both into their output and back into the mains.  I find it weird that when Stereophile (yeah, I know) measures a switching amp they have to filter the output to remove ultrasonics to get a decent SNR.  Shouldn't that be a red flag?

Baldr clearly has a better ear than I do. My wife has a better ear for this type high frequency noise than I do. Woe unto me if try to sneak a class D amp into the house.  I do not hear the noise consciously,  but If I listen to any class D amp for more than 45 minutes, I get the sensation of pressure on my ears and mild headache. The same thing happens when I listen to cheap equipment, which is why I forced(FORCED, I TELL YOU!) to get good equipment. This is not true for everyone, I have a friend who loves music as much as I do and is perfectly happy with class D, even for long periods of time.

 

[wink]

The best thing to do if you have a class D amp is twofold...
A/ Never turn it on
B/ Sell it.

 

[artur9]

  The same thing happens when I listen to cheap equipment, which is why I forced(FORCED, I TELL YOU!) to get good equipment. This is not true for everyone, I have a friend who loves music as much as I do and is perfectly happy with class D, even for long periods of time.

I have difficulty explaining to the family the things I hear that they do not.  It's really strange given that my hearing is pretty bad and always has been (congenital hearing defect).  
 
AFAICT, I  am really sensitive to phase effects that no one else in the household even hears.  Bad equipment seems not to put any care into controlling that sort of thing.
 
On an operatic note, my daughter and I saw Turandot last night.  I have no basis for comparison besides the Met's DVD but it was a lot of fun.  The Liu was wonderful and the Ministers were great rollicking fun.

 

[landroni]

  I have difficulty explaining to the family the things I hear that they do not.  It's really strange given that my hearing is pretty bad and always has been (congenital hearing defect).

 
AFAICT, I  am really sensitive to phase effects that no one else in the household even hears.  Bad equipment seems not to put any care into controlling that sort of thing.
 

The way I see it, what we hear is not only about the ears, it's also about the brain. And when we talk 'brain', we talk training, synapses, etc., etc. I'm pretty confident most art critics have a hard time showing their families what they can see in a painting that others can't (say, variations on particular shades or colors).

 

[Ableza]

... it's ONLY about the brain.

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

Saw an utterly stunning ballet at NYCB today. Balanchine in black and white. The dancers reveal the human form in such riveting beauty that I was left thinking: what if we had our operas performed with the singers singing unilluminated at the sides of the proscenium, with a ballet rather than a theatrical staging put to the music? It would be much more visually stimulating, and (especially or perhaps only in the case of Wagner) would allow for a kind of abstract interpretation of the music that heretofore is reserved, in the choreography of Balanchine, for absolute music. Abbado did a Ring without Words a few years back that's about 70 minutes long, and I would LOVE to see that staged. 
 
Wagner was all about how Gesamtkunstwerk was the unity of music, text, and dramatic action, and it seems to me a serious phase in the visual interpretation of Wagner will dispense with the pretext of staged production (ala David Hockney in 2006 at the LA Phil) and let us see the text interpreted with the ultimate abstraction, intensity, and freedom of choreography that does not attend to the mundane workings of the plot (as Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet does, and which I find incredibly tedious): the text fills us in on the plot; the staging, like the music, can convey yet another incarnation of the drama that pervades the work across its multiple media.
 
@baldr let me know if I'm going too far

 

[landroni]

  ... it's ONLY about the brain.

Insofar ears aren't a limiting factor (hearing damage, ageing, natural variability in human physiology...), yes. It's all about brain processing and pattern spotting, which definitely does not happen in the ears.

 

[wink]

(snip)  
@baldr let me know if I'm going too far

Only if you're leaving the planet......