[Gandasaputra]

dear head-fiers, 
 
I'm new with westone 4 and, and I have owned it for 2 months. What does the westone 4 sound like if one of the drivers goes off? I find my it to be bass light...and it gets boring and not exciting as my other dynamic driver earphones, like yamaha eph-100

 

[james444]

^ Well, compared to bass-heavy dynamic IEMs like the EPH-100, the W4 might actually sound as if a bass driver went off, especially at low volume. BAs are just a different technology with less tactile bass feel, unless heavily boosted.
 
Try listening at higher volume for a short time, or EQ up the bass range, and it should be easy to find out whether there's actually something wrong with the drivers.

 

[Gandasaputra]

so do you mean that if the bass is not audible, when it's EQ'd with deep bass, it means the bass driver's dead? I've never thought that yamaha eph-100 is bass heavy!

 

[Zalithian]

Quote:

so do you mean that if the bass is not audible, when it's EQ'd with deep bass, it means the bass driver's dead? I've never thought that yamaha eph-100 is bass heavy!

I don't know if the eph-100's are bass heavy, but I can say that some people are used to bloated and excessive bass. So then when they hear something with more neutral bass levels, they think it is bass light. Some people don't even think the CX300's are bass heavy.

 

[james444]

Quote:

so do you mean that if the bass is not audible, when it's EQ'd with deep bass, it means the bass driver's dead? I've never thought that yamaha eph-100 is bass heavy!

 
Yep, even though the W4 are no bass monsters, their deep bass extension is actually quite good. So, if you EQ up the deep bass and you hear a difference, that means the driver isn't dead. Besides, it's highly unlikely that the bass drivers on both earpieces would go off at the same time, so you'd hear an L/R imbalance in bass, if one side had given up the ghost.
 
Let's face it, the EPH-100 have a good deal more (deep) bass emphasis than the W4, plus their dynamic driver's bass decay is significantly slower than W4's.
 
If you want to dig further into this topic, then read Rin's EPH-100 analysis and compare the left side of his 3D waterfall plot (that massive green ridge) to the one in his Heir 4.Ai analysis. Unfortunately Rin hasn't measured the W4 yet (he'll get a pair soon though). But the W4 and 4.Ai share the same BA drivers, so bass quantity and decay should be sufficiently similar to give you a rough idea. Note that the bass ridge in the 4.Ai plot is a lot less massive than the EPH-100's, and also less deep (which means that their bass has faster decay).

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

 
Yep, even though the W4 are no bass monsters, their deep bass extension is actually quite good. So, if you EQ up the deep bass and you hear a difference, that means the driver isn't dead. Besides, it's highly unlikely that the bass drivers on both earpieces would go off at the same time, so you'd hear an L/R imbalance in bass, if one side had given up the ghost.
 
Let's face it, the EPH-100 have a good deal more (deep) bass emphasis than the W4, plus their dynamic driver's bass decay is significantly slower than W4's.
 
If you want to dig further into this topic, then read Rin's EPH-100 analysis and compare the left side of his 3D waterfall plot (that massive green ridge) to the one in his Heir 4.Ai analysis. Unfortunately Rin hasn't measured the W4 yet (he'll get a pair soon though). But the W4 and 4.Ai share the same BA drivers, so bass quantity and decay should be sufficiently similar to give you a rough idea. Note that the bass ridge in the 4.Ai plot is a lot less massive than the EPH-100's, and also less deep (which means that their bass has faster decay).

 
I wouldn't be so quick to assume this (the bold) BTW.  Tuning can do very odd things to a driver.  I am interested in seeing raw graphs for the W4 though

 

[james444]

Quote:

I wouldn't be so quick to assume this (the bold) BTW.  Tuning can do very odd things to a driver.  I am interested in seeing raw graphs for the W4 though

 
Well, I said "a rough idea" and if you look at the W4 FR graphs that are already out there, it's not much of a stretch. Plus, I've both the EPH-100 and W4 and my listening impressions confirm the difference in bass.
 
But I'm open to bets, if anyone thinks that the W4 CSD will look closer to the EPH-100 than 4.Ai in bass...

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

 
Well, I said "a rough idea" and if you look at the W4 FR graphs that are already out there, it's not much of a stretch. Plus, I've both the EPH-100 and W4 and my listening impressions confirm the difference in bass.
 
But I'm open to bets, if anyone thinks that the W4 CSD will look closer to the EPH-100 than 4.Ai in bass...

 
I'm not taking that bet.  I'll agree with your gut idea that it'll be closer to the 4.Ai and not the EPH-100  

 

[Gandasaputra]

Quote:

I don't know if the eph-100's are bass heavy, but I can say that some people are used to bloated and excessive bass. So then when they hear something with more neutral bass levels, they think it is bass light. Some people don't even think the CX300's are bass heavy.

I agree, well before I own westone 4, I have bass heavy IEM and headphones such as, klipsch s4i (first good iem I had), Klipsch image one, AKG Q350, AKG Q460, V-moda Vibrato, Yamaha EPH-100, sony MDR-ZX600...hmm shall I mention more? Knowing the collections I have, I've grown up listening to colored bass earphones/headphones, then when I try something different sounding earphone, like the natural tone of westone 4, I get disappointed. It's weird that although westone 4 doesnt contribute to "wow" factor, I never go back listening to my old earphones!
 
For 2 months of being confused (yet kept switching ear tips) with westone 4, I was at the verge of selling it because the sound was not quite pleasing. Then I changed my mind once I tried Imackler's Sony hybrid tips! I realized that all westone's tips are disappointing....
1.The medium foam tips feel comfortable ( except the big, long and small ones) but makes it sounds lifeless.
 
2.The medium grey round sleeves gives sibilant with minimal bass. 
 
3.The small grey sleeve sounds great but hurt my ears because it goes too deep.
 
4.The clear tips? heck no, those are useless except the small one but I always had to push the earphone more often to get fuller sounding.
 
5.I even purchased shure olives, medium and small sized....those sounds okay and gives dead-quiet isolation, but both are uncomfortable (feels like a pinkie stuffed into my ear's canal). I can't listen to my earphone for long time. Not even an hour.
 
6. the flanged tips, with the smallest cut off, gives deep bass but I felt the treble is recessed.
.
.
.
7. Imackler's sony hybrid tips? that gives me a smile! Very comfortable, yet fuller sounding that any tips I've listed above! Any westone 4 users should try using his sony hybrid! 

 

[TwinQY]

Quote:

I agree, well before I own westone 4, I have bass heavy IEM and headphones such as, klipsch s4i (first good iem I had), Klipsch image one, AKG Q350, AKG Q460, V-moda Vibrato, Yamaha EPH-100, sony MDR-ZX600...hmm shall I mention more? Knowing the collections I have, I've grown up listening to colored bass earphones/headphones, then when I try something different sounding earphone, like the natural tone of westone 4, I get disappointed. It's weird that although westone 4 doesnt contribute to "wow" factor, I never go back listening to my old earphones!
 
For 2 months of being confused (yet kept switching ear tips) with westone 4, I was at the verge of selling it because the sound was not quite pleasing. Then I changed my mind once I tried Eric's Sony hybrid tips! I realized that all westone's tips are disappointing....
1.The medium foam tips feel comfortable ( except the big, long and small ones) but makes it sounds lifeless.
 
2.The medium grey round sleeves gives sibilant with minimal bass. 
 
3.The small grey sleeve sounds great but hurt my ears because it goes too deep.
 
4.The clear tips? heck no, those are useless except the small one but I always had to push the earphone more often to get fuller sounding.
 
5.I even purchased shure olives, medium and small sized....those sounds okay and gives dead-quiet isolation, but both are uncomfortable (feels like a pinkie stuffed into my ear's canal). I can't listen to my earphone for long time. Not even an hour.
 
6. the flanged tips, with the smallest cut off, gives deep bass but I felt the treble is recessed.
.
.
.
7. Eric's sony hybrid tips? that gives me a smile! Very comfortable, yet fuller sounding that any tips I've listed above! Any westone 4 users should try using his sony hybrid! Thanks for the tips Eric!

 
If you already have both the Hybrids and the small Olives, try putting the Olives into the Hybrids like so. I feel like it definitely makes everything tighter sounding, while still retain that classic Hybrid signature. The isolation is also improved, without losing the comfort of the Hybrid tips. 

 

[james444]

Quote:

5.I even purchased shure olives, medium and small sized....those sounds okay and gives dead-quiet isolation, but both are uncomfortable (feels like a pinkie stuffed into my ear's canal). I can't listen to my earphone for long time. Not even an hour.

 
Did you try them reversed (wide side first)? For some people they're more comfortable that way.

 

[Gandasaputra]

Dear Twinqy,
 
I followed your instruction and here's my tip look like, and hope I did the correct way: 
 
Medium Sony Hybrid x Shure olives foam only (small sized) x Shure olives core
 

The foam showed inside.

 

The foam inside the hybrid
 
 

Look like mushroom....thought it won't fit to my ear but it actually fits, although it can't go deep into ear canal
 
 

 
My first impression is that the hybrid with shure's foam and no foam sound almost similar. I agree with you, the one with the foam sound more punchy and fuller. The one with no foam has little bit punchiness, and it snug fit into my ear canal while the others not. Well, I need more time to learn with the sound and thanks for the advice!
 
Best regard, sam

 

[lazuline]

I just wanted to say that I've spent roughly a year with the W4R as my go-to IEM and I'm stilll smitten. The w4r has kept me off this forum (though the ue900 seems interesting and there's always the idea of custom IEMS). 
 
 
So does anyone have experience with the um56 tips and the w4? how is the isolation (obviously fit should be good). I like the idea of having tips I can use for ety/shure. Vinyl or silicon?

 

[TwinQY]

Quote:

Dear Twinqy,
 
I followed your instruction and here's my tip look like, and hope I did the correct way: 
 
Medium Sony Hybrid x Shure olives foam only (small sized) x Shure olives core
 
My first impression is that the hybrid with shure's foam and no foam sound almost similar. I agree with you, the one with the foam sound more punchy and fuller. The one with no foam has little bit punchiness, and it snug fit into my ear canal while the others not. Well, I need more time to learn with the sound and thanks for the advice!
 
Best regard, sam

Yep, looks exactly like I did it. Regarding the shallow fit, the tips (I assumed you used the Olive core as an adapter, if not, very important for sound and isolation) should be positioned a little further away from the stem than you already have. No matter the ear size, the maximum amount of foam should pretty much always be around the size of the small olives. If you don't mind mutilating the foam a little, I recommend trimming them to be a bit thinner, until you feel you can get a deep enough seal like before. Also, since they fill out so nicely, I decided to use a size smaller than my usual tips (the blue ones instead), and found out they can go even deeper!

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

I just wanted to say that I've spent roughly a year with the W4R as my go-to IEM and I'm stilll smitten. The w4r has kept me off this forum (though the ue900 seems interesting and there's always the idea of custom IEMS). 
 
 
So does anyone have experience with the um56 tips and the w4? how is the isolation (obviously fit should be good). I like the idea of having tips I can use for ety/shure. Vinyl or silicon?

 
Isolation and sound are both very good with the UM56 tips.  I had vinyl from 2007 - 2009 and loved them but lost them at the Colorado meet summer 2009.  I replaced them that December with Silicone tips which I still have.  The vinyl tips were a little stiffer and less comfortable, but they seemed to grab the sound nozzles on the Westone IEM a little tighter.  I don't recall if there was a difference in sound.